ABC TV (AUS) 7:30: Hostage
claim could be genuine, journalist says
[transcript]
Tuesday, September 14, 2004
Hostage claim could be genuine, journalist says
Reporter:
Kerry O'Brien
KERRY O'BRIEN: One Australian journalist who has more
feel for the motives and make-up of the different
insurgency groups involved in kidnappings and
murders, And has had regular contact with many of
them, is 'Time' magazine's Iraq correspondent Michael
Ware, who joins me now from Baghdad.
Michael Ware, it's now almost 24 hours since this
kidnapping claim was made.
With no further word from the Islamic Secret Army and
no hint of the identity of the four hostages.
What are the odds that this kidnapping is real as
opposed to a hoax?
MICHAEL WARE, 'TIME' MAGAZINE: Well at this stage,
Kerry, I'd have to say it's still 50/50.
The fact that no video proof of life has yet emerged
is not yet a telling factor.
As you say, it's only been 24 hours or so, I've had
experience with other hostage situations where it's
taken many days, sometimes weeks, before we see the
proof of life.
So that in itself doesn't say anything.
It's entirely plausible that this has occurred.
There's just nothing to identify yet whether this is
a hoax or whether this is legitimate.
We just have to stay anxiously tuned.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Is it normal for them to give such a
tight deadline, 24 hours to get out or they're dead?
MICHAEL WARE: Yes, that has happened in the past.
Sometimes that has been a ruse, sometimes that has
been just a tactic to up the stakes or to get wheels
in motion.
Other times it has been deadly serious.
We cannot underestimate these people with regards to
their fervour or their willingness to carry out their
threats or their deadlines.
This is the problem, we've now entered a murky world
if in fact Australians have been taken hostage.
There's a range of groups taking hostages for a range
of reasons.
The best case is that this is about money and
humiliating the Western coalition.
Worst case is that this is a non-negotiable situation
with Islamic extremists for whom there is nothing we
can offer to save these men's lives.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Well, to the extent that you know
about the Islamic Secret Army, where would you
position that group?
MICHAEL WARE: At this stage from the little that we
know, the Islamic Secret Army has only appeared in
relation to hostage taking.
That's the only time it's popped its head up.
We cannot directly associate it with any of the more
well known militant groups involved in the day to day
combat here in Iraq.
So this seems to be a hostage specific permutation.
My gut, from the little bits and pieces I'm hearing
from the Iraqi insurgency as late as this morning, is
that perhaps this is a group associated with a more
nationalist configuration of militant groups, albeit
-- that bodes better than other news that we could
have hoped to receive yet at this stage they still
remain a relative unknown quantity.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Now, the hostages are supposed to have
been taken on the highway from Baghdad to Mosul at
the town of Sumara.
Does that make sense, that that might have happened
and yet nearly 24 hours later the Australian embassy
officials, the private security contractors, haven't
been able to pinpoint anyone missing?
MICHAEL WARE: Just on pinpointing people missing
issue -- I was reading the wires this morning as it
was stating that Foreign Affairs had accounted for
all 88 Australians registered here in Iraq.
Well as I was reading that, I was still receiving
emails from Foreign Affairs, asking whether I was
safe and I am registered with the embassy here.
So that seemed to be incongruous.
I'm not confident that we have been able to account
for everybody.
But the passage of time and the fact that this
location is thick in hostage taking territory.
I mean, everything is entirely plausible here.
The only question is which groups have them.
That's going to be determining very much the style of
negotiations and whether we can hold out any hope at
all.
But I mean, one thing is clear -- as the militants I
was meeting this morning -- went to great pains to
emphasise to me, Australian interests are legitimate
targets.
Some militants disagree with the hostage taking but
nonetheless, attacking Australian interests, they
consider to be well within the realms of the rules of
engagement.
They see and the Jihadists, the Al Qaeda-backed
Islamic militants, see us, because of our association
with the coalition in Iraq, as full blown high value
targets.
Our involvement in this war has opened us to this.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Would you -- are you saying that we
may be waiting at least days to establish whether
there is any truth to the claims?
MICHAEL WARE: That's entirely possible.
I mean, in one incident that I was involved with a
Pakistani hostage, I was the person to whom the
hostage tape was delivered.
I was unwittingly made the conduit in that
negotiation process.
By the time I received that tape it had been two or
three days, perhaps four, since that individual had
been taken hostage.
It then took a further day and a half for that
person's company to confirm yes indeed he was
missing.
So these things can take time given the nature of the
logistics both on the insurgent side and here on the
business side and military side in Iraq.
KERRY O'BRIEN: On the latest bombing in Baghdad
today, Michael, at least 30 dead.
Is there any sense really that the Iraqi interim
Government has more than the thinnest sliver of
control over Iraq?
MICHAEL WARE: Look, in some ways it seems that the
Iraqi Government, particularly its security and
defence apparatus, is out to lunch.
Now is a classic example.
The chiefs of a number of the security agencies are
simply not in the country.
Much of the security apparatus is not in place.
And the location of this bombing was in an area known
as Haifa street.
That is an area of about 20 or 30 blocks within the
centre of Baghdad.
It is within mortar range of the seat of Iraqi
Government.
Within mortar range of the US embassy and yet the
American forces and the Iraqi Government cannot set
foot in Haifa Street.
The only time they go in, they've got to battle their
way out.
That's in the very heart of the capital.
If they can't extend their influence to control their
own capital within range of their own houses of
power, what is there to say about the extension of
central government power into the countryside.
A very tenuous grip.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Michael Ware, thanks very much for
making the time out to talk us to.