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ANDERSON COOPER: As we
told you before the break, Saddam Hussein's trial was
put on hold for one more week, the latest act in a
trial plagued by delays and murders.
While many Americans and Iraqis are eagerly
anticipating the eventual verdict, if it comes, there
remains the question as to whether it will have any
effect on the violence in Iraq, on the insurgents.
Earlier, I spoke by phone with "TIME" magazine's
Michael Ware, who is in Baghdad and has been on the
ground with U.S. troops.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: In terms of the impact on the insurgency,
what do you think that might be?
MICHAEL WARE, BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF, "TIME": Look,
Anderson, it is absolutely zero.
I mean, this is the thing about the whole trial. The
trial is essentially circus. It is a three-ring
circus. It is theater. I mean, this is for Western
consumption. For the Iraqis, it means nothing. For
the Iraqi Shia, for the Kurds, for anyone who had
been touched by Saddam's regime, there's no question
of guilt. There's no question of what should happen
and what will happen.
COOPER: You were just embedded with a group, the Blue
Platoon, up in Ramadi. An amazing statistic I read in
your article that is in "TIME" magazine this week:
one in three members of this platoon have either been
killed or wounded since July. That's a remarkable
statistic, a terrible statistic.
What was it like being embedded with them?
WARE: It really is one of the great front lines that
remains of the Iraq war.
Their convoys get hit by IEDs. They get
rocket-propelled grenades. They came under
coordinated simultaneous attack on five U.S. bases at
once. I mean, that's what it is like out there for
these guys. And that is what it's like to be with
them. I mean, I got off a helicopter, and I walked
straight into a city-wide firefight.
COOPER: You write in your article, "The insurgents'
ability to preserve and regenerate their forces is a
hallmark of the war."
I mean, there have been thousands of insurgent
fatalities, but you're saying they're able to just
regenerate?
WARE: We are roughly looking at 15,000 to 20,000
fighting men in the field on any one given day. Now,
the significant thing is that that 15,000 or 20,000
that's in the field, it takes at least six or eight
people behind that man to put him into that field.
So, the support base is quite considerable.
The real thing is that that 15,000 never changes.
Despite everything that the coalition does,
everything the military does -- taking out Fallujah,
taking out Samarra, taking out Tal Afar -- all the
disruptions that it causes to the insurgents, that
number stays at 15,000, 20,000.
COOPER: We are starting to hear from this White House
talk that the Iraqis maybe are doing better than we
had previously thought. Their security forces, their
military is maybe more ready than we had thought.
There are a lot people that say, well, look, that's
just politics. They're just trying to say that to set
the timetable for withdrawal. From what you're
seeing, from what you're hearing from the troops you
have been embedded with, do they have confidence in
the Iraqis they're training?
WARE: Whoever from the White House is saying that is
one of two things. Clearly, they have never been in
Iraq and, clearly, they have never been in a
firefight with an Iraqi unit.
Secondly, they're clearly lying, whether they know it
or not. I mean, a very senior U.S. military
intelligence officer, one of the most high-ranking in
the country, just in the last few days, said to me,
"these Iraqi forces will never be in a position to be
able to crush this insurgency."
On the ground here, no one has no any real illusions
about that. I have been in battle with almost every
type of Iraqi security force there is, from police
commandos, to special forces, to 36 Commando, to the
elite counterterrorism force akin to the Delta.
I have been with Kurds and Shia and Sunni. And I'm
telling you, if the Iraqi security forces are the
exit strategy, then get ready to be here for a long
time. And your troops know that. They work with them
side by side every day.
Yes, there are advances. Yes, there are gains. But
will this military that's emerging here ever be able
to replace the American military in Iraq? No.
COOPER: Michael Ware, it's a great article this week
in "TIME."
Thanks very much.
WARE: Thanks very much, Anderson. Take care.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And if you get the chance, you should read
the article in "TIME" magazine this week by Michael
Ware, embedded with the Blue Platoon in Ramadi. It's
a remarkable account of just heroic efforts by these
soldiers fighting back this insurgency.