Length: 4:31
LARGE (53.0 MB)
-----
SMALL (5.2 MB)
ANDERSON COOPER: Michael
Ware, TIME Magazine's Baghdad bureau chief is
standing by for us in Baghdad. We're going to talk to
him shortly.
We're going to take a quick break.
We actually do have Michael Ware and it's live
television and it is Iraq. Let's go to Michael in
Baghdad. Michael, one of the big stories this week,
of course, is that insurgents -- Sunni based
insurgents -- were telling Al-Zarqawi, were telling
Zarqawi's groups here in Iraq, foreign terrorists,
not to attack on polling day. That is a huge
development.
MICHAEL WARE, TIME MAGAZINE: Yes it is, Anderson.
We've seen this play out once before on the October
15 referendum. On that day there were zero suicide
bombings. Unlike the first election in January, when
there were seven. That's a result of the Baathist
insurgents and the nationalist insurgents telling
Zarqawi to sit down for one day -- "allow us and our
people to participate in this process."
Now the Baathists, the nationalists and the Iraqi
Islamic groups have done that again today. They've
urged their people to participate. This means Zarqawi
must restrain from attacking. He is very much the
wild card today.
And already now here in Baghdad, we've heard the
first big explosion. So, who knows what's going to
happen -- Anderson.
COOPER: Michael, I should also just tell our viewers
we are -- we understand Nic Robertson is fine. He is
off camera. We're continuing to keep up the scene in
Ramadi where Nic sort of had to quickly leave the
scene. But we're going to continue that shot up to
try to get the latest developments out of Ramadi.
Michael, what -- I mean, what is the significance of
today? I mean, how important do you think this is in
terms of the insurgency? What impact does a high
turnout have on the future of the violence here?
WARE: Well, the U.S. diplomats have hoped that every
Sunni vote would be a vote against the violence and
against the insurgency. However, that's not going to
be the case. As we saw with the referendum, the
insurgents are pursuing a two-track policy. One is
military, one is political. They call it the bullet
and the ballots. They're trying to use military
pressure to work on a political front and for the
politics to assist in the military campaign. So we
will not see any cessation of the fighting after this
election.
And just like in Ramadi, where Nic is right now, this
is a city that Zarqawi controls. So it's in places
like Ramadi where we will see the true nature of the
insurgency. Who is in charge out there? If Zarqawi
does not restrain himself in Ramadi, that is going to
tell us many things about the state of the fight.
COOPER: But if he does restrain himself, does that
mean that the Sunni insurgents -- who are, in terms
of numbers, certainly have the greatest numbers in
this insurgency; I mean, Zarqawi, the foreign
terrorists are by all accounts a relatively small
percentage, though in terms of lethality and
political impact they're perhaps the greatest -- if
he does not attack today, does that mean that it is
the Sunni insurgents who are really in control, who
are really running this thing or will be in the
future?
WARE: Well, it certainly shows us that they have
regained the upper hand. In 2003, this was very much
an Iraqi nationalist fight. However, throughout 2004,
we saw Zarqawi with his money and with the zealotry
and commitment of his foreign fighters, take over the
insurgency, or he certainly gained the momentum.
Throughout this year we've seen much more of a
struggle out there among the insurgents. And as
Zarqawi has had to fill the ranks of his Al Qaeda
organization with Iraqis, we have seen it soften. We
have seen it begin to listen much more to the Iraqi
insurgent groups. So today will tell us a great deal
about the nature of these relationships. And it could
bode well for the U.S. mission as American diplomats
and military officers reach out to the Iraqi
Baathists and nationalist insurgent groups. If we see
them with the upper hand, that means this program of
outreach has much better prospects for success for
quelling the violence.
COOPER: Michael Ware, of "TIME Magazine," Baghdad
bureau chief. Michael, thanks, it's always good to
talk to you -- especially today.