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ANDERSON COOPER: Does he
have a point now, however? Does the president -- is
the media only reporting the bad news in Iraq? We
wanted to talk about that.
Joining us in Baghdad, CNN's Nic Robertson, also
"TIME" Magazine's Michael Ware, along with talk show
host, author, and blogger Hugh Hewitt.
Appreciate all of you being on the program.
Hugh, let me just start off with you. You pretty much
agree with the administration that out of Iraq, we're
really only hearing the bad news. Why do you think
that is, if that's what you think?
HUGH HEWITT, CONSERVATIVE RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:
Anderson, I think the coverage of the Iraq invasion
right from the start, all of the way through to the
present day, has been abysmal in the mainstream
media.
I think that it goes back even further than that. In
April of 2003, Eason Jordan, an executive with this
network, admitted that CNN had for years covered up
atrocities that Saddam had committed because they
were afraid for their reporters.
That history of bad coverage in Iraq began in the
invasion when it was declared a quagmire on the third
day because of the sandstorm and through all the
three elections of last year.
A lot of new media that goes to Iraq, whether it's
Michael Totten, whether it is Michael Yon, Bill Rosio
(ph), whether it's Victor Davis Hanson or Laura
Ingraham or especially Robert Kaplan, whose book
"Imperial Grunts," is must-reading on this, report
back enormous progress being made in the country. The
sort of report that we simply never get because good
reporters like the two I'm sharing this time with, do
have to cover what Candy Crowley called, "The Boom."
But just covering "The Boom," does not represent what
is going on in that war.
COOPER: Nic Robertson, what do you think?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL
CORRESPONDENT: Well, I do think that we're able to
get to some of the good stories, if you will, power
plants being built, water plants being refurbished --
covered those last week. If you look at our coverage,
Wednesday, the new parliament being formed, by
everybody's assessment, political step forward. Good
news by most people's assessment, yes.
We would have been derelict in our duty if we didn't
report that there's still a lot of -- a long way to
go before they actually form a government. That is a
big issue.
The day after Operation Swarmer, touted as being a
great shining example of how the new Iraqi army were
performing. Covered that big time. I think we do get
to the so-called good stories. But also there are the
so-called bad stories that are a very important part
of what's happening to this country. And we wouldn't
be doing our job and we would be failing our
audiences if we didn't bring to them the stories that
are relevant to how this is going to play out in the
future.
I look back to the summer and fall of 2003 when we
were covering stories about an insurgency. The
military spokesman here at that time, was saying no,
no, there isn't an insurgency. This is bad news. It
proved we were proven correct.
COOPER: Michael Ware, you've spent probably more time
with insurgents and insurgent groups than anyone I
know. What do you think? Do you cover "The Boom" too
much?
MICHAEL WARE, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, I think it's a
matter, Anderson, of trying to reflect the reality on
the ground. That all of these critics who are saying
that we're not telling the good news stories, I'd
like to know just how many of them have spent any
time here on the ground. Or any of these people who
are reporting the good news from within the belly of
the U.S. military, how much time have they spent on
the Iraqi street?
I mean, what do you think ordinary Iraqis are talking
about? Do you think they're talking about the
unfurling of the flag of democracy or that they're
grateful that the Americans have unveiled a new
electricity plant, when they have not had electricity
in their house for four days. When they have to queue
at a gas station for two days. When the marketplace
is blowing up with car bombs. When their cousins are
showing up dead in the morning as a result of
sectarian death squads through the night. What do you
think is the refining experience for an Iraqi family?
COOPER: Hugh Hewitt, what about that?
HEWITT: Well, I asked Michael Yon about that today. I
tried to contact Mr. Ware in Baghdad from my radio
show. We spent three hours on this. And Michael Yon
simply disagrees with Mr. Ware. He's also spent a lot
of time in the war zone, often with the military,
sometimes without. Michael Totten's done the same, so
as Robert Kaplan. So I think there are many, many
people with on the ground experience, who simply
reject what Mr. Ware is saying.
COOPER: Hugh, can I..
HEWITT: Important thing I think, though...
COOPER: OK.
HEWITT: ... is that it's not what's going on today
alone. It's about the context. Because five years
ago, you would not have the story of kidnapped people
and torture that Eason Jordan referred to.
Five years ago we did not know what the quality of
life for the Iraqis was. But it was a dismal,
totalitarian regime, from which escape was not
possible. And so while "The Boom" matters and while
those conditions are certainly desperate in many
parts of the country, and Baghdad is a dangerous
place, compared to what, Mr. Ware? Compared to
Baghdad under Saddam? Are you arguing that Iraqis are
worse off today than they were four years ago?
COOPER: Michael Ware, do you want to respond?
WARE: Yes, well, I think if you asked a lot of
Iraqis, I think you'd be surprised by what the answer
is. A lot of them say, "what, this is democracy?" The
joke is, "you call this liberation?" And, okay, let's
look at the context, as you suggest. Let's look at
the even bigger picture. What is the bigger picture?
Who is winning from this war? Who is benefiting right
now?
Well, the main winners so far are al Qaeda, which is
stronger than it was before the invasion. Abu Musab
al-Zarqawi was a nobody, now he's the superstar of
international Jihad. And Iran, Iran essentially has a
proxy government in place, a very, very friendly
government. Its sphere of influence has expanded and
any U.S. diplomat or senior military intelligence
commander here, will tell you that. So that's the big
picture. Where is that being reported?
COOPER: Nic Robertson, let me ask you, how easy is it
for you to move around? I mean, in Baghdad. You know,
obviously probably it's easier than outside the
country, but how often are you out with the military
reporting stories out on patrol with U.S. soldiers?
ROBERTSON: I would just backtrack a little bit,
Anderson. If I go back to my days here under Saddam
Hussein, when we would sit around waiting days to go
out anywhere because we wouldn't be given permission
-- it's bad. If I go to right after the war when we
could literally go anywhere at any time and talk to
anyone and drive all over the country, that was the
best time.
Now our situation now, it's very difficult because it
is not safe for us to go out and walk the streets. We
can't do that. We need to go out with security or
essentially disguise ourselves to blend in with the
population. We can't drive around the country because
that's a dangerous thing to do.
If we want to get to other areas of the country, we
need to embed, we need to fly with the military.
Often times these days I find they're very, very
accommodating when we arrive, that they will give us
much better access than they were ever given to doing
a couple of years ago.
They certainly understand the need of our job to talk
to Iraqis, and they facilitate that. But it's not the
same. And it doesn't bring the same results as being
able to go around the country freely. It is a much,
much tougher environment to work in. You are far more
constrained than in any other story I've worked on.
And that does have an impact on what we produce.
I believe we still perform a very valuable job,
having said all of that -- Anderson.
COOPER: Hugh Hewitt, we're almost out of time, but I
want to give you the final word. And I just want to
ask you, do you believe that it is an intentional
misleading by reporters on the ground -- not all
reporters, but I guess, mainstream reporters on the
ground, that they are anti-Bush and therefore
intentionally only looking negative? Or do you
believe that some of the negativism is just by the
fact that it is more difficult to move around, you
can't just go into Iraqi family's house because of
the security situation? Do you make a distinction
between it?
HEWITT: Anderson, it's complicated because there are
some fine reporters working there, and Jill Carroll's
in custody tonight. People pray for her, her safe
release. And there are people who risk their lives
every day to get a story, and I've been told by
Michael Yon, for example, Michael Ware is a very,
very fine reporter who goes in harm's way to get the
story.
That having been said, a great deal of American
mainstream media is invested in the idea that this is
a disaster, that it will bring down Bush, that it was
a mistake at the beginning, and disaster for the
Middle East. They are pushing that agenda, quite
obviously, over and over again, to the exclusion of
important stories like the book by Georges Sada,
Saddam's general, like the Philippine -- the
documents released today, covered in "The Weekly
Standard," about the Kuwaiti hostages denied by Iraq
having even been there, but now revealed today to
have been used as human shields by the
mad-as-a-hatter sons of Saddam.
There's quite a lot not being covered because to
cover it and to cover it extensively, will not only
support the Bush administration decision to go to war
here, but make it appear as though one of the wisest
he has made. And indeed, investment in the failure of
this operation is what is bringing increased contempt
for the American media across the land except on the
noisy left. And the noisy left doesn't win elections.
COOPER: Well, I wish we had time to talk, especially
about the Georges Sada books. I got to tell you, I
disagree with you on that, having looked into it. I
mean, the guy is making claims that he can't verify
and that are based on what friends of his have told
him. But anyway, we don't have the time to go into
it. Another time.
Hugh Hewitt, we'd love to have you on the program
again. Thank you very much.
HEWITT: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Michael Ware and Nic Robertson, as well. Stay
safe. Thanks guys.