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WOLF BLITZER: Violence
raged across Iraq today. The worst of it came when a
car bomb blew up in Sadr City, a mostly Shiite area
of Baghdad. Place say at least 10 people were killed,
28 others were hurt.
As sectarian slaughter rages, we turn to someone
who's gone behind the lines of the insurgency.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And joining us now is Michael Ware of "TIME"
magazine.
Michael, the goal of the insurgency right now, is it
to create a civil war in Iraq or to drive the
American forces out?
MICHAEL WARE, "TIME": Well, according to U.S.
military intelligence -- and I've spoken to their
upper echelons, Wolf -- and according to the
insurgents themselves -- this is both the Sunni
insurgents and the Shia militias -- no one wants
civil war. And a senior U.S. military intelligence
officer told me it's not in anyone's interest except
Zarqawi's right now. And by and large, for what it's
worth, that's what the mainstream of the insurgency
is also saying.
They are saying, "the Shia, the Sunni are not our
natural enemies. We need to focus on the main fight,
which is that against the common enemy, the U.S.
soldier."
BLITZER: But there seems to be a war, in effect,
under way between the largely Sunni-led insurgents
and these Shiite militia groups that operate on their
own. One thing they both have in common is seemingly
their anti-American stance, even though they may hate
each other.
WARE: Absolutely. It seems that there's a certain
level of violence here that, you know, U.S. officials
will say, 25 bodies are found each day, former prime
minister Ayad Allawi says between 50 and 60 a day.
That seems to be almost not tolerated but bearable.
The insurgents themselves say they do not believe,
despite this violence, that right now they're in
civil war. However, they say, should it spark, they
are all ready to fight it.
But they want to avoid this. They, like U.S. military
intelligence, say it's the extremists on each end who
are trying to drag the middle into a civil war.
BLITZER: You've met with some of these Sunni
insurgents, these Saddam loyalists. Talk a little bit
about their motivation. What's driving them right
now? Where they get their money, where they get their
equipment, what their zealotry is all about.
WARE: All right. Talking about the Sunni insurgents,
the mainstream, the main body, by and large, these
are former military officers, former Ba'athists,
members of the intelligence service, the secret
police. These are relatively well-trained
individuals. Many of them, the U.S.' former allies
from the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war.
These guys are essentially jockeying for some kind of
power, some kind of a carve-up at the political
table. It's very Clausewitzian. For them the military
action is really just an extension of the politics.
They believe that by putting military pressure on,
that gives them a stake that they didn't otherwise
have in the military game. Unlike the al Qaeda
extremists, unlike the Islamic militants, they are
not fighting a global holy war. They are not fighting
to create an Islamic state, like the Sunnis on one
side and the extremist Shia on the other.
They want largely a secular society. They've said
they're prepared to host U.S. bases, akin to Germany
and Japan. "Let's normalize relations. We share
common enemies, Iran and al Qaeda. How did we end up
on the wrong side of this?"
BLITZER: It's really an amazing situation when you
look at it. Now, you've also met with some of these
Shiite militia groups, those loyal to the
anti-American young cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, among
others. What's motivating them?
WARE: Well, there's a great feeling of
disenfranchisement among these men, these very
impoverished, largely poorly educated and poorly
serviced men from the slums and ghettos of Baghdad
and beyond. The infrastructure in their neighborhoods
is appalling, Wolf.
I was there with the army of Muqtada al Sadr's men on
Sunday when there was a torrential downpour. Sadr
City, home to 2.5 to 3 million people, flooded with
raw sewage up to your knees.
These men, these women, these families had very
little delivered. So there is a lot of anger there.
And they follow the cleric, the anti-American
firebrand Muqtada al-Sadr religiously, devotedly.
Anything he says, they take as an order.
For now, he says, "hold back, we're gaining at the
political table." But the Sadrists have been the
kingmakers. They're the ones who have kept Prime
Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari in power for now.
As we have seen with Secretary Rice's visit, there's
a move perhaps afoot to shunt him aside. If that
happens, if Jaafari loses, the Sadrists lose.
Goodness knows what will happen then. They are
threatening another war with the American soldiers.
BLITZER: Michael, this is one of the most dangerous
stories ever for journalists to cover. You're one of
the most courageous journalists on the scene right
now. Talk a little bit about how you do it, how you
go out there, you meet with insurgents, you meet with
Shiite militia factions, you go about doing the job
of being a reporter under these incredibly dangerous
circumstances.
What's it like?
WARE: Well, Wolf, we all live with a certain level of
stress: from the fear of kidnapping when you step
outside your front gate, to the fear of car bombs
when you are inside your gate, to the fear of mortars
or rockets raining down on your compound, to the fear
of an IED as you're driving or being caught in a
firefight at a moment's notice, or running into the
wrong checkpoint. Goodness knows all this stress just
adds up on you. And it plays like a steady white
noise that every now and then breaks into your daily
transmission.
It's a lot to live with day to day. Security is your
waking concern.
Now, to get out and about, you can't do that in an
armored convoy heading into insurgent-controlled
territories. The only way to do that is to place
yourself in the hands, in the custody of these very
insurgents.
That's a very, very difficult and complicated thing
to do. You need to take out insurance, you need to
test the waters, you need to have a certain kind of
faith and hope that they will bring you home safely.
BLITZER: Michael Ware, be careful over there. We will
check back with you in a few days. Thanks very much
for joining us.
WARE: My pleasure, Wolf. Thank you.