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Length: 7:09
JOHN ROBERTS: Is the U.S. military out in front of
the White House with warnings about defeat in the
Iraq war? Joining me now from Baghdad correspondent
Michael Ware, Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is
with us from the Pentagon and CNN military analyst
Major General Don Shepperd, U.S. Air Force Retired
joins us from Albuquerque, New Mexico. The big news
of the week in Iraq: a secret Pentagon report
suggested the U.S. was losing the war in the huge
western Anbar Province. Michael Ware spent time in
that area in and around the city of Ramadi with U.S.
troops and filed this report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):
American soldiers in al-Qaeda's heartland in Iraq and
a gaping black hole in Washington's global war on
terror.
COL. SEAN MACFARLAND, U.S. MARINE CORPS: The folks
that we are fighting are the same kind of folks that
took down the World Trade Center and drove an
airplane into the Pentagon. And these people here
want to turn al-Anbar into what one smart guy called
al-Qaedastan.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: There you hear it, al-Qaedastan. And Michael
Ware a little earlier this week a report came out, a
Marine intelligence officer said that unless there
are more troops and aids sent into al-Anbar Province,
the outlook there is grim. From what you saw with
your own eyes, how grim is it there right now?
WARE: Well, John, the thing about al-Anbar province,
I've been going there for three years now and to be
honest there's absolutely nothing revelatory or new
in this Marine intelligence report. Anyone who has
spent enough time on the ground in al-Anbar has known
this for well over a year. Al-Qaeda has taken over
the fight out there on the insurgent side and there
simply are not enough U.S. troops to combat them.
This week in the wake of that report, we saw the
Marine commanding general responsible for al-Anbar
admit as much. He said I have enough troops for my
mission but my mission is just to train the Iraqis.
Should I be told I need to win against this al-Qaeda
led insurgency, then my metrics, my troop levels
would have to change. Al-Qaeda is definitely on the
front foot out there. John?
ROBERTS: Barbara Starr is there any chance that the
Pentagon may send in more troops to al-Anbar Province
or are they sticking with the plan as it is right
now? Train up the Iraqi forces, let them handle
security?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: John,
officially for the record what the generals say is if
they need more troops they will ask for more troops
and they feel they will get more troops. But make no
mistake, there is simply no indication at this point
that there is going to be any substantial new influx
of additional troops to Iraq. What the U.S. military
is saying it is not Anbar province it is Baghdad that
is the front burner for them. That is where all their
forces are weighted to, trying to get a handle on the
security situation in the capital.
ROBERTS: General Shepperd, we hear the president say
again and again Iraq is the central front in the war
on terror, we have to fight them there so we don't
have to fight them here. We have to destroy terror
where it lives in Iraq. If al-Anbar province is in
danger of failing is the policy as written now and as
pursued now adequate?
MAJ. GEN. DONALD SHEPPERD, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): No
it's not adequate, there's no question about it. We
need more troops to do the things that we are now
doing in Iraq, which is, as Barbara says, securing
peace and security in Baghdad. That's the most
important thing. But you can't do that and you can't
defeat the insurgency in al-Anbar province and you
can't train the Iraqis to take over all at the same
time with the number of troops we have in the country
right now, John.
ROBERTS: So more troops needed you think, Don?
SHEPPERD: I think more troops are needed if indeed
you're going to do all of the things that are on our
plate right now and make progress in this war. We're
not making progress right now in Iraq.
ROBERTS: All right, there was a new reminder on
Thursday of how death and mutilation stalked both
Americans and Iraqis in Baghdad these days. Cal Perry
was at the 10th combat support hospital in Baghdad
when the wounded were brought in from a truck bomb
attack on an American position.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAL PERRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It had
been a truck bomb attack on a 4th infantry division
fixed position in Baghdad. The U.S. soldiers had
apparently been caught off guard. Some of the wounded
arrived wearing sneakers, rather than their usual
combat gear. Even as the casualties were still
coming, Major General James Thurman slips in. He's
the commander of the 4th infantry division, here to
comfort and console his men.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Of course American forces, Iraqi civilians,
all being targeted by both terrorists and the
insurgency. Michael Ware, an aide to cleric Muqtada
al-Sadr who heads up the powerful Mahdi Militia said
he expects that when U.S. forces eventually withdraw
from Iraq that there was going to be a civil war. Is
that the prevailing wisdom there?
WARE: Oh, there's absolutely no doubt. I mean the
forces are already aligned. And there's much debate
about whether there's a civil war now in technical
terms or not. But when we're having between 1,500 and
3,000 deaths per month here in this country from
sectarian violence, it doesn't leave much doubt in
the minds of people on the ground. The forces are
ready and are aligned. One side being drawn to the
extreme by al-Qaeda, the other side being drawn to
the extreme by Iran and Iranian proxies, many within
this U.S.-backed government. John?
ROBERTS: Is there anything, Barbara Starr, that the
Pentagon can do to avoid this civil war? What about
the militias? There still doesn't seem to be any plan
to disarm them and is that even the U.S. military's
job?
STARR: At this point, it's hard to say that that's
really the U.S. military's job. What they are doing
behind the scenes is trying to pressure the new Iraqi
government to get a handle on it, to move ahead with
their own security plans. The Iraqi government says
it is going to introduce a law to try and control the
militias. But, look, as Michael says, what's going on
in Baghdad, hundreds of people killed every month.
The violence goes down in Baghdad when there are
neighborhoods where U.S. and Iraqi troops are
patrolling the streets. That brings the violence
down, it gets back to the question: would it help,
then, to have more troops?
ROBERTS: And General Shepperd, if Iraq is as this
aide to Muqtada al-Sadr says and as Michael Ware
seems to agree, headed toward civil war, regardless
of whether American forces stay there longer or not.
It raises two questions. What was this all about,
first of all? And secondly, if it's destined to
disintegrate into civil war, why not pull out U.S.
troops now?
SHEPPERD: Those are good questions, and I'm sure
they're being debated at many levels. It's very clear
we're not going to pull the troops out in any rapid
fashion. We clearly need to help the Iraqis succeed.
We clearly need to get them on their feet. That means
that the solution is not military, it's training the
Iraqis to take over, to provide their own security
and to get these two major militias, the Mahdi army
and the Badr brigades to lay down their arms, to stop
the killing and the death squads and to join the
political process and then get the Sunnis to rejoin
the political process. Those are all very tall orders
and we're trying to do it while we're trying to
prevent a civil war. This is a tall, tall order for
everything that we've taken on in Iraq, John.
ROBERTS: And difficult to find any good news at all
in Iraq this week. General Shepperd, thanks very
much, as well to Michael Ware in Baghdad and Barbara
Starr at the Pentagon.