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Length: 5:05
PAULA ZAHN: So, is the U.S. accomplishing what it set
out to do in Iraq or just the opposite? We put
together a "Top Story" panel to get a reality check
tonight.
Joining me from Boston is Jim Walsh, a terrorism
expert with MIT, and, live from Baghdad, our own
Michael Ware.
Glad to have both of you together tonight.
So, Jim, as the contents of this report were leaked,
what surprised you most about its conclusion?
JIM WALSH, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST,
MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: Well, Paula, I
don't think it's new.
A lot of analysts, myself included, were warning that
even before the war in Iraq, if we went into Iraq,
this would help al Qaeda; this would help the
terrorists. It would help with recruitment, and more
people would want to join the cause.
And Kelli is right. Intelligence officials have been
offering these views for some time in testimony and
speeches. What is news here, though, is that this is
a National Intelligence Estimate. It's the most
important intelligence document that the government
produces. All 16 different agencies are agreeing, and
they're saying that we are less safe today than we
were three years ago, and against the number-one
threat we face, which is terrorism. And, so, it goes
straight to the heart of the president's claims on
what is his most important issue. So, it's certainly
newsworthy in that regard.
ZAHN: And, Michael Ware, there's another point borne
out by this report. We have seen the fallout from
U.S. military action in Haditha and Abu Ghraib, and
we know that has been used as a recruiting tool for
al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations.
But this report also suggests that the mere presence
of U.S. troops on the ground is creating this
violence. So, at the end of the day, are we to accept
the conclusion this is an absolute lose-lose
situation for the United States?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the United
States certainly has created quite a situation for
itself.
I mean, we have seen -- it's been self-evident on the
ground here since at least 2004 that the very thing
President Bush says that he came here to prevent --
terrorism, and to curb this terrorism -- he is in
fact fostering. I mean, after Afghanistan, al Qaeda
and like-minded groups were looking for the new
platform in which to blood the next generation, the
next fire in which to forge the steel that they
thought would take al Qaeda forward.
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the now-dead leader, saw this
opportunity, and took Iraq as a platform. And that's
exactly what we have seen happen. We saw a homegrown
fight internationalized by people like Abu Musab
al-Zarqawi. And we now see it as the rallying point
for al Qaeda and global militants across the world.
This simply is not new. It's what intelligence
agencies have been saying for quite some time. It
dismisses President Bush's honey pot theory: We will
draw them into Iraq and kill them there. No, say
analysts I speak to. It's the beehive. We're shaking
it up -- Paula.
ZAHN: Michael, thank you.
And let me have Jim weigh in on that, because the
administration continues to argue that you're just
looking at a snapshot here, and, to be perfectly
fair, that you have to look at the totality of this
report. Do they have a point there?
WALSH: Sure, I think that that's true.
But, then, we should simply declassify it, Paula. I
have looked at plenty of NIEs over the years. They
don't tend to be thematic. They don't tend to talk
about sources and methods. And, so, they're usually
the sort of documents that, if the president wants
to, he can go ahead and declassify them, maybe remove
a little bit here and a little bit there.
But it's important to realize that, on this argument,
is the reporting being fair, that the person who
started the study group, who headed the writing team
for it, and who has since retired, confirms these
reports as being true, and as I indicated before,
Paula, that the CIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency,
in testimony before Congress, has said the same
thing, that the war in Iraq has been a rallying cry
for al Qaeda and extremists and has...
ZAHN: All right.
WALSH: ... and has helped them. So, it's...
ZAHN: OK, Michael, just a quick final thought on how
troops over there are reacting to the conclusion that
their presence has caused this terrorism to spike?
WARE: Well, I haven't spent any time with troops
today, Paula.
But what I can tell you is that, over the last few
years, I have watched this tide of disenchantment
grow within the soldiers and Marines, particularly as
they're coming back for their second and their third
tours. And they're not seeing any real difference.
These people, however, are professionals, by and
large. They signed up to serve. They have been
ordered to come here, and they're going to do the
best job that they can. Nonetheless, that doesn't
mean that they cannot help but see that they're still
grinding it out in the same streets against the same
enemy, who appears, at least in P.R. terms, to
becoming stronger, not weaker -- Paula.
ZAHN: Michael Ware, Jim Walsh, thank you both.
Appreciated hearing from both of you.