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Length: 4:15
ANDERSON COOPER: Well, joining me to discuss today's
historic meeting is Michael Ware, who joins me now
from Baghdad. And also we'll be joined by Reza Aslan
in a moment.
Michael, good evening to you. What so far has Iran's
role been on the ground in Iraq?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening,
Anderson.
Well, according to U.S. and British intelligence,
Iran has been affecting a very complex program. It
has effectively been trying to match the United
States in terms of what the U.S. is doing here across
diplomatic fronts, political fronts, economic fronts,
intelligence and propaganda fronts, and military
fronts.
What the Western intelligence community says is that
hardline elements of the Iranian Revolutionary
Guards, Quds Force, has been liaising with, training,
arming, equipping, financing and directing many of
the militias. We've also seen Iran, according to
Western intelligence, play a heavy hand in creating
the shape of Iraqi-Shia politics. Certainly, the
United Iraqi Alliance, which took government.
Many Western intelligence agents claim that the
Iranian ambassador here in Baghdad played a very key
role there. So it seems clear from them that Iran is
very much seeking influence. And indeed, many people
would say with this current government, Tehran has
more influence than Washington could ever hope to
have.
COOPER: Well, Michael, certainly among Sunni
insurgents, Iran is viewed as an enemy. Among Shia
Iraqis, though, how do they view Iran?
WARE: Well, that is a very, very mixed bag. I mean,
by and large, many people underestimate the sense of
Iraqi nationalism. Being an Iraqi Shia does not mean
that in any way are you pro-Iranian. Indeed, there is
-- despite the cultural and religious similarities,
there is also many cultural and other divides. And
don't forget these two nations fought a long and
bitter war. A lot of the residue from that remains.
Nonetheless, Iran has been able to extend its sphere
of influence here. I mean, Saddam used to check
Iranian influence. It stopped at his border. Well,
we've now seen Iranian influence take southern Iraq.
And then after the last election, we saw Iranian
influence take the central government as well. So
there has definitely been an expansion.
COOPER: We are joined also now here in Istanbul with
Reza Aslan.
Iran's influence in Iraq, it really has never been
higher?
ASLAN: No, it hasn't. And look, I think the Iranians
recognize -- they're following the debate going on in
the United States. They know that there is a momentum
here that is coming to the consensus that there is no
way of winning Iraq without Iran's help. And I think
in many ways they are trying to co-opt that and get
the upper hand.
COOPER: By having their own meetings right now with
Iraq's president?
ASLAN: Precisely. Look, Iran -- there's -- Iran is
going to be a part of the future of Iraq. There's no
way around it--
COOPER: Whether we like it or not.
ASLAN: That's right. And at a certain point I think
that this administration is going to have to
recognize that we are going to have to deal with Iran
as the regional power that it is. It's no longer that
rogue state that it used to be in the '90s and in the
'80s. And the sooner, I think, we come to terms with
that, the sooner we'll be able to deal with Iran in a
way that will bring some kind of stability into that
region.
COOPER: It is amazing, though, that they have been
able to overcome this enmity which existed between
the two nations, though.
ASLAN: That's right. I mean, I think in many ways it
shows an incredible degree of sophistication on the
part of the diplomats in Iran. But more importantly,
look, there's -- these guys are neighbors. They
share, I think, you know, a religion, they share
certain ideologies, they share certain regional
interests. And more importantly, they have a very
robust trade going on between these two countries.
So, I think Iran wants to make sure that whatever
happens in Iraq in the coming years that its
interests are going to be preserved.
COOPER: Reza, thanks very much.
And Michael Ware also, in Baghdad. Michael,
thanks.