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ANDERSON COOPER: There were more lives lost in Iraq
today. Seven people were killed. Police found 38
other bodies in and around Baghdad. The United
Nations says in July and August, the number of
civilians killed in Iraq reached a record high,
nearly 6,600 people just in two months. These past
few weeks have been even bloodier than usual in
Baghdad, despite a U.S. -led crackdown.
CNN's Michael Ware joins us now from the capital.
Michael, who is primarily responsible for these huge
numbers of civilian deaths?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, these are the
death squads on both sides of the sectarian divide,
Anderson.
On one hand, you have al Qaeda-inspired or al
Qaeda-led death teams. If you think back, Abu Musab
al-Zarqawi, the founder of al Qaeda in Iraq, started
this. This is his grand vision that he spelled out
two years ago. Let's provoke sectarian war.
He started doing that by the car bombings and
targetings of innocent Shia civilians, hoping to
provoke the Shia. He even set up the Omar Brigades,
which was the first organized death squads in Iraq.
We then saw the Shia respond in kind, and once they
took government, their death squads put on police and
army uniforms. So these are also the people
responsible for these massive numbers. These are an
American-backed government's death squads that are
out there roaming at night in government uniforms,
Anderson.
COOPER: And how are people targeted? Who gets
kidnapped? Who gets killed and tortured? I mean, the
accounts I've read, you know, 20 people being taken
off a bus and, you know, being tortured to death. Is
there a rhyme or reason as to who gets taken?
WARE: No. I mean, there's a certain randomness and
there's a certain targeting. I mean, what you'll see
is on both sides, that can literally just pull over a
bus to the side of the road, go through
identification and sort out who's Sunni and who's
Shia. It all depends on who stopped the bus, which
side lives and which side dies.
There's also targeted snatchings, as well. This is
where both sides develop their own intelligence. They
do surveillance on an individual whom they have
information on. Either he's a Sunni or he's a Shia.
He's involved in the government. He's involved in
something else. They watch them, they hunt them and
then they move in and strike.
Most disturbing, is when these are the government
death squads. A Sunni can be at home in his house at
night, and at 2 in the morning, police vehicles show
up. Men in uniforms get out, show identification,
taking him away, promising that he'll be returned.
The family next sees him show up dead and tortured,
Anderson.
COOPER: So if the government's involved, then how are
U.S. forces dealing with this? How do they try to
stop the death squads?
WARE: Well, the U.S. forces are doing a number of
things. One is the Special Forces with Iraqi Special
Forces are out there particularly hunting death
squads. But these guys are limited to what
intelligence and what information they have to guide
them.
The other thing that U.S. forces are doing is this
massive Battle for Baghdad, a huge military operation
that's been rolling through the city since June.
That's about securing the areas where the death
squads have been operating.
The problem is, the death tolls drop in those areas
when U.S. troops are there. The death squads simply
move around them and hunt in other areas, waiting for
the American troops to leave again.
The other problem being that all of this is done in
partnership with the Iraqi security forces. And
ultimately, when American troops leave an area, they
hand it over to the Iraqi security forces. Well, it's
the Iraqi security forces who house many of the death
squads. That's the great irony, Anderson.
COOPER: Michael, when you get pulled over at a
roadblock or stopped at a checkpoint and it's Iraqi
security guys, how do you know whether or not you can
trust them?
WARE: You don't. That's the thing. In the past it
used to be that there would be random checkpoints
thrown up or ad hoc checkpoints thrown up by
insurgents or kidnap teams.
So you'd drive around a corner and there'd be a
checkpoint, and you'd really know that you're in
trouble. Now that takes place no matter who is
manning the checkpoint. You don't know if it's
legitimate or not. You don't know if it's insurgents
or death squads in uniform or not. You don't even
know if it's a real checkpoint, but they're still
going to make trouble for you.
There is very, very limited degrees of either U.S.
control or central government control over its own
paramilitaries and military forces. So some days
you're taking your life in your hands just going to
an army checkpoint -- Anderson.
COOPER: Life in Baghdad. Michael Ware, stay safe.
Thank you, Michael.