Click photo to play
Length: 5:20
JIM CLANCY: Calls for a
troop pullout from Iraq growing louder in the U.S.
among lawmakers, but in Iraq, many officials say that
would be a disaster. Iraq's foreign minister warning
an early U.S. troop withdrawal could plunge Iraq into
all-out civil war. Hoshiyar Zebari says such a move
could trigger the country's complete collapse.
HALA GORANI: Well, Jim, the conflict is facing some
key benchmarks in the coming weeks and months. The
Bush war policy takes center stage on the floor of
the U.S. Senate, of course, this week, as lawmakers
begin a contentious debate on a major defense
spending bill; the list of Republicans calling for a
change in Iraq continuing to grow, as well.
Back in May, the U.S. Congress demanded that the
Iraqi government show progress on specific
benchmarks. An interim report is due on July 15th, so
really just a few days away. A more specific report
by the top U.S. commander in Iraq is set for mid to
late September, but "The New York Times" is reporting
that there's been an internal debate inside of the
White House itself about whether the president should
announce a troop pullback sooner rather than later.
Well, joining us now for more on all the developments
in Iraq and Iran's influence inside this country is
our own Michael Ware here in Baghdad.
So, Michael, let's first start with these reports
that the Iraqi Shiite Cleric Muqtada al-Sadr may be
in Iran right now. Is that even significant?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: Well,
certainly our sources within the Mahdi Army had
indeed warned us that Muqtada al-Sadr would be going
to Iran. Now, they were citing the reason for that
was concern within the senior ranks of his
organization at the arrest of a man called Qais
Khazali.
Now, he was detained by U.S. forces in connection to
the attempted kidnap of five U.S. soldiers and he's
been talking. And we're told that that's what
Muqtada's worried about. Now in Iran, we saw him go
there earlier this year. He was able to maintain
control, by remote. So the fact that he's not present
really doesn't dilute his influence, but it does show
that, obviously, he's under some kind of pressure.
GORANI: Now, let's talk about the Islamic State of
Iraq, this self-proclaimed group here in Iraq, giving
Shiite forces two months to stop attacks against
their fighters or else. What does this mean?
WARE: Well, what they're saying is they're warning
Iran specifically. They're saying, "we're giving you
two months to stop supporting the Shia government and
to stop attacking the Islamic State of Iraq." Now,
the Islamic State of Iraq is al Qaeda in Iraq. Now,
unlike the old-school al Qaeda of Osama bin Laden,
this is the progeny of the late leader of al Qaeda,
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Now, he made it very clear his
grand design from day one was to go and pick a war
with the Shia.
Now, that means Iran as well. He believed that only
by doing that will the great Sunni nation stand up
and awake and strike back. So this is not new. This
is an evolution of their thinking, their strategy.
GORANI: What would be the reaction on the other side,
any worry at all?
WARE: I would imagine it would be hard for Iran to
actually be worried about a threat from the Islamic
State of Iraq. I mean, their attacks continue every
day already. They're striking directly at this
Iranian-backed government here in Iraq, and they're
attacking Shia civilians day by day. They're unable
to launch an offensive against Iran itself, so the
war will remain here where it has from the beginning.
GORANI: What do you make of the Sunni vice
president's statement that ordinary citizens in Iraq
should just arm themselves of the security vacuum?
What does that mean? How should we read it?
WARE: Well, we already know that every household in
this country is allowed to have one AK-47 assault
rifle. So they're already armed. We already know that
in neighborhoods, men have to take to the streets
every night to protect their block against death
squads, against al Qaeda, against Sunni insurgents,
and even against American raids. So the concept isn't
new.
And indeed, we've seen America adopt this. They have
coalesced the Baathist insurgency, contracting out,
essentially, the fight against al Qaeda in parts of
the country because the Baathists know where al Qaeda
is and America doesn't, and they don't have the rules
of war that America does. They can just walk in and
kill these men, so that's what Tariq al-Hashimi is
referring to.
GORANI: But when you look at the global picture and
look at other countries that have gone through the
same thing, where ordinary citizens group together
and arm themselves to protect their own group, does
that mean a militia war when the Americans leave?
WAR: Absolutely. We already have one now. What do we
have to wait for the Americans to leave for? There's
already a militia war. And speaking to hard-line
Iranian-backed elements of this government, Shia
factions, they're saying to me that these are
America's Sunni militia. And effectively what they
told me over the weekend is that this is America's
insurance policy against us, the Iraqi government.
GORANI: All right, Michael Ware, as always, thanks so
much.
Well, for all of you following the Iraq story and all
of our other headlines, you can always check out the
website, CNN.com/International.
That's it for now from us, back to you, Jim.
CLANCY: All right, Hala, thank you very much for
that.