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Length: 5:44
ANDERSON COOPER: Well, joining me now to talk about
the realities in both Washington and Iraq are former
presidential adviser David Gergen -- he's in San
Francisco tonight -- and, in Baghdad, CNN's Michael
Ware.
David, let me start with you.
Even if the Democrats all rallied behind around one
plan, can they actually force the president to make
benchmarks for the Iraqis? Can they make the money
conditional like that?
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: It's very
unlikely that they can actually get a bill passed,
Anderson. Even if they get it passed, the president
is going to veto it. And they don't have the override
votes.
But I will tell you something. I think they are -- in
a very odd way, despite all their disarray -- and
that sort of goes with being Democrats, I suppose --
they're actually giving a gift to the president.
COOPER: How so?
GERGEN: Well, the Republicans are properly going to
squawk and yell and so forth. But they -- instead of
handcuffing the president, as the Murtha bill would
have done, this new bill will give a gift to the
president in this sense:
It will strengthen his hand to go to the Maliki
government in Iraq and say, "Mr. Maliki, you have to
do this, because I have got these people at home who
are going to cut things off unless you act."
The president can now have a good-cop/bad-cop routine
with the Maliki government. He can be the good guy.
But he can always point to those Democrats back home,
who control the Congress, who are going to really
lower the boom on Maliki, unless he moves on some of
these things.
And it will allow the president -- it gives him more
leverage with the Maliki government. And I think that
is actually healthy for the president.
COOPER: For Republicans, David, even if they
successfully kill the Democrats' proposal, if the
Democrats figure out one proposal, there's a risk for
Republicans in that. And the risk is that the funding
for troops runs out.
GERGEN: Absolutely.
And, for that reason, I think that they're not going
to -- they're going to insist on some kind of
funding. I can guarantee you that the funding is
going to continue, however all this sort of folderol
goes on, and the arguing back and forth, you know,
unfolds here in the next few weeks.
But I think that the Democrats, the growling that
they're doing against the war, does -- it puts
pressure on the White House. But it also allows the
president to put pressure on the Iraqi government. I
think it pushes us toward the day when this is --
going to come home.
Now, it may be more difficult for General Petraeus.
And he clearly, in his press conference today...
COOPER: Yes.
GERGEN: ... in Baghdad was making it clear: I may
need more time. I may need more troops.
COOPER: Michael, I want to get your take on how the
ongoing escalation or redeployment of troops is
going. Here's what General Petraeus said today.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS, U.S. COMMANDER IN IRAQ: While
too early to discern significant trends, there have
been a few encouraging signs.
Sectarian killings, for example, have been lower in
Baghdad over the past several weeks than in the
previous month. There also appears to have been less
sectarian displacement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That certainly sounds like good news. If it's
true, Michael, do we know why it would be occurring?
Is it the presence of U.S. forces in the
neighborhoods? Or are sectarian militias simply
laying low, trying to take the temperature?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, there's
absolutely no question about it, Anderson. U.S.
commanders here on the ground themselves openly admit
that the militias, particularly the very powerful
Mahdi militia of anti-American cleric Muqtada
al-Sadr, have gone to ground.
Yes, there's been a disruption of their options. Yes,
there's been a disruption of their leadership
structure, with some arrests. But, by and large,
they're just standing back. This is precisely what
most commanders expected them to do.
This plan has been so well-announced in advance, the
insurgents and the militias knew it was coming and
took precautions. I mean, yes, it's working in
keeping certain levels of certain types of violence
down. But is it working in fundamentally changing the
nature of the dynamic of the problem here? No.
And no American commander is suggesting it is,
Anderson.
COOPER: Petraeus also was talking about -- that
military force is not going to be enough, the
implication being political talks with militants
would be necessary.
What is the incentive for insurgents, Michael, to
talk at this point? And isn't this the same
conversation that you and I have been having for the
last three years? They have been talking about
talking with insurgents for quite a while now, and it
never seems to bear fruit.
WARE: Well, that's the thing. I mean, there's nothing
that General Petraeus has told the world in his first
press conference since taking over this war in Iraq,
that was new, strategically or in terms of any kind
of timetable for U.S. troop levels.
There's just, you know, nothing that he's been able
to add in that sense. I mean, America is tied down
here, whether it likes it or not. And putting
artificial deadlines, that only feeds into the
insurgents. And, right now, the main winner is Iran,
who are backing the weak central government -- the
many other parties involved in it -- and who are
moving them across the board like chess pieces in a
game.
COOPER: And, David, finally, you know, what we're
hearing from Petraeus is all about resolve. And his
timelines are lengthy ones. I mean, he's talking
months, the implication being possibly years, not
days and weeks. Is -- that's a tough sell for the
American people at this point.
GERGEN: It is.
And the problem that General Petraeus has is, there's
such a thing now as Washington time, the political
timetables in Washington, and Baghdad time. And
General Petraeus is on a different time scale. He
probably does need more time.
But, you know, Anderson, if he can show enough
progress over time -- Michael's right. They're just
-- you know, these folks have gone to ground. A lot
of these insurgents have gone to ground. These Shiite
militias have gone to ground. But, if there can be a
breathing space, you can get Maliki to do a few
things, it's conceivable the politics in America
might lighten up a little bit, and people might give
General Petraeus a little time.
They have got a very narrow window now to get
through. It's unlikely they will get through it. But,
for the first time, there may be a window.
COOPER: David Gergen, Michael Ware, appreciate it.
Thanks, guys.
GERGEN: Thank you.
COOPER: Interesting discussion.