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MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shia
fighters in central Baghdad now battling the Shia
Medhi Army and death squads from other Shia factions
and doing it all under contract to the U.S. Army.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: On Friday, Michael Ware reported on a
dramatic development on the streets of Baghdad. But
are these new allies a strong foundation for a
political solution or just an alliance of convenience
in preparation for a new and deadlier civil war?
Michael is standing by in our Baghdad bureau right
now and he joins us, and joining me in London is
Michael Yon, an independent journalist who has just
returned from Iraq.
Michael Ware, let me start with you. What is really
different now?
WARE (on camera): We're now seeing that of the
200-plus concerned citizens groups, which are
America's militias, 13 percent of them are Shia. And
12 percent of the total are mixed Sunni-Shia.
Now all of these militias, Sunni or Shia are a curb
against the death squads, the spread of Iranian
influence, al Qaeda, and they are a stick with which
to beat this government which is not cooperating with
America, Tom.
FOREMAN: Interesting point, Michael. Let's look at
the map as we always do to give people a sense what
we're talking about. Generally, and it's not very
accurate in the big picture, but this is generally
how you divide the country. The Kurds are up north
over here. The Sunnis tend to be over in this side.
The Shia tend to down in this area.
Michael Yon, what about this Michael Ware that
talking about, this idea of Sunni and Shia somehow
beginning work a little better together in this
process? Is that happening yet, or is that
overstating it?
MICHAEL YON, MICHAELYON-ONLINE.COM: I think it's
false to call these America's militias. You do see
these things springing up spontaneously actually.
There has been some spontaneous growth of you might
say militias up in Nineveh Province that has not been
reported. In fact it just kind of popped on the radar
about 10 days ago and some of these things, they are
just homegrown, they are popping up on their own.
People trying to secure their own areas.
Now in some places like Anbar Province, they are
trying to bring the militias into the police forces,
taking them in, screening them, taking fingerprints,
for instance, and eye scans and other places like
Diyalah Province, doing the same. Trying to fold them
into the police force.
Because the fact is, Iraq is for Iraqis, and so the
militias are formed, they are trying to take care of
their own neighborhoods in many cases. And without a
strong central government, there is really no other
way. You either leave it to anarchy or you try to
help organize in the ways you can.
FOREMAN: So, Michael Yon, would you characterize
these then though as sometimes mixed militias or are
they still predominantly Sunni or predominantly Shia
even when they form sort of naturally to defend a
neighborhood?
YON: It depends where you are at. Certainly, for
instance, Basra, they are Shia. You get up out in the
western parts of Nineveh Province, and they would be
Sunni or down in Anbar Province. They would be Sunni.
Down in south Baghdad, in the Rashid area, there is
numerous very small fractured groups here and there
in the various neighborhoods and so it's very hard to
characterize. Some are just what you might call
neighborhood watches and they are very small groups.
Others are just, you know, outside of the cities,
they might be just a village, for instance, that has
organized to defend its village.
And so it's a very complex mixture, and it's hard to
actually put your finger on what it is, because it's
so broad.
FOREMAN: Let's move on and talk about some of the
bigger militias that we've talked about before.
Particularly Muqtada al Sadr's Mahdi Army.
This week General Petraeus said something really
quite astonishing about someone who was considered
such an enemy before. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS, COMMANDER, MULTINATIONAL
FORCE IRAQ: The Sadr trend stands for service to the
people, not extortion...really thinking through how
can this movement rid itself of those who have
tarnished its reputation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Michael Ware, are you surprised to hear him
talking this way about Muqtada al Sadr, who was once
sort of public enemy number one as far as U.S. troops
were considered?
WARE: No. Not at all. Indeed, the Americans have had
a very complex and mixed relationship with Muqtada al
Sadr and his Sadrist movement almost since it first
emerged. Indeed, well over a year ago, a cell was
formed in the U.S. Embassy to target Muqtada and his
movement and try and bring him into the fold. Now
Muqtada is one of the great opportunities lost for
the Americans here in Iraq. Unlike the other major
Shia militias which are directly linked to Iran,
according to U.S. military intelligence, Muqtada is
purely homegrown. His father, his uncle, himself,
they stayed here in Iraq, under Saddam and his father
and uncle paid for it with their lives. That gave him
a strong home base--
FOREMAN: Michael Ware, let me interrupt you, though,
with a question on that, though, if I can. You say
that he's an opportunity lost, though. Why lost? He
seems to be cooperating now. He called a cease-fire,
he seems to be helpful.
WARE: Yes, because now he's under so much pressure.
Muqtada of 2007 is not the Muqtada of 2004. The
Iranian Revolution Guard and their Quds Force has
been extremely effective at undermining his power
base, both within his own militia structure and
indeed, even within his own political structure. So
now Muqtada is looking for friends. Now, Muqtada
could have been bought off or brought over to the
American side years ago, but there was no
preparedness for that kind of engagement. Now there
is.
Now, Muqtada's motivation is that essentially the
Iranians have been hollowing out his military moment.
And indeed the greatest threat to security right now
according to the U.S. commanders is the special
groups. These are the splinter groups from Muqtada's
organization who he's lost control over. They are the
ones who tried to kidnap Americans, they are the ones
holding the five Brits according to U.S. commanders,
Tom.
FOREMAN: OK. Michael Yon. I want to get back to you
for one last question on this, some of the late news
this week was U.S. military was looking at all of
these Sunnis who have not been welcomed in to the
security forces run by the Shias and who seem to be
itching for a chance to have real jobs and the
American military is now saying let's develop some
sort of civilian job corps where we will start
employing a lot of these Sunnis.
Will that be enough to make Sunni communities
continue cooperating and saying, OK, we now have a
living for our young men and their families, this
will be progress, even if the central government
didn't give it to us?
YON: Well, I've heard many Sunnis complaining that
they have difficulties getting hired for the police
force. But that depends, you know, on what area
you're talking about. For instance, again, not a
problem out in Anbar Province, but it can be
problematic in some places in Baghdad.
One of the huge difficulties, of course, right now,
is that the economy is in shambles, even though it's
improving. And so the people do need jobs, of course.
When they don't have jobs, they are going to resort
to crime and kidnappings and the things that they
have been doing quite a while. So anything that you
can do to give them hope will be helpful.
FOREMAN: Michael Yon, very briefly. It seems like if
you can get them involved in some kind of public
works project, it could also help with issues like
water and electricity and all of those things that
have been problems. Fair enough?
YON: Fair enough. You know, money is very important
at this point in the war. The violence is going down.
But we've really got to pour the money in as quickly
as possible. But spending it smartly so that the
people do see hope. I mean, we're at a possible major
turning point here in the war, as long as we don't
take our foot off the gas.
FOREMAN: All right. Michael Yon, thank you so much.
Make sure you check out his website,
michaelyon-online.com. Really interesting. And
Michael Ware, as always, thanks for being
here.