Length: 9:52
LARGE (115.7 MB)
-----
SMALL (11.6 MB)
FIONNUALA
SWEENEY: Welcome back. For 19 months, he's been held
without charge in Iraq. The U.S. military says
there's now evidence to suggest this man, Bilal
Hussein, is a terrorist.
It's planning a criminal case against the Associated
Press photographer. This shot taken in November 2004
shows insurgents launching an attack on U.S. forces.
The photo, by Bilal Hussein, was part of a series of
Iraq War images that won the AP a Pulitzer Prize the
following year.
Hussein has taken hundreds of pictures for the AP,
documenting war. The U.S. military says some are
taken at the side of insurgents, raising suspicions
the photographer had advance knowledge of attacks.
The case could be brought to the Iraqi justice system
as early as November 29th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEOFF MORRELL, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: They characterize
him as a terrorist media operative, who infiltrated
the AP. They found IED devices or materials in his
home, as well as some other discomforting evidence.
And as a result of that, they've held him. And now
they're recommending that he be tried.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SWEENEY: The AP says its own investigation shows the
accusations against Hussein are false. It says
there's no evidence to suggest the photographer took
part in insurgent activities or bomb making.
U.S. officials say Bilal Hussein could still be held
even if an Iraqi court acquits him based on
classified evidence. Well, let's get more on this
now. And for that, I'm joined from New York by
Santiago Lyon, the director of photography with the
Associated Press and from Baghdad by CNN's Michael
Ware.
Santiago Lyon in New York, are you 100 percent
convinced of Bilal Hussein's innocence?
SANTIAGO LYON, DIRECTOR OF PHOTOGRAPHY, AP:
Absolutely. Everything that we have seen surrounding
his work as a photojournalist in Iraq leads us to
believe that that's what he is and nothing more.
His photographs over the 20 months that he worked for
us in their vast majority show the effects of the war
on the civilian population. And we have no reason to
believe that he's anything other than a committed
photojournalist telling the story of his country.
SWEENEY: But according to the U.S. military as you
are well aware, and I'm quoting here from the sound
bite earlier, he's characterized as a terrorist media
operative who infiltrated the AP. What about the IED
devices or materials allegedly found at his home,
Santiago?
LYON: Well, it's interesting. When Bilal was picked
up in April of last year, he was in an apartment that
he was renting in Ramadi, where he was working. And
after a time, the U.S. military came on the scene.
And they handcuffed him and they brought him
downstairs to an electrician's shop below his
apartment and photographed him above his objections
with a bunch of electrical equipment, wiring
equipment, the type of stuff that could conceivably
be used to make an improvised explosive device, but
that had nothing at all to do with Bilal Hussein. It
wasn't even his storeroom. He had nothing to do with
it.
SWEENEY: But correct me if I'm wrong - he was also
found in his apartment with two relative strangers,
who he says he was helping escape from the insurgency
or from a bomb attack minutes before, one of whom
apparently is an insurgency leader.
LYON: Right. Bilal Hussein was coming back from
buying bread the morning of his detention. And an
explosion went off in the street. And as is often the
case, people ran out of the street and into
buildings. And these two gentlemen ran into his
apartment. And as is customary in Iraq, he offered
them hospitality and breakfast. And according to
Bilal, did not know them before.
SWEENEY: Michael Ware in Baghdad, you have been many
times in the environs of insurgents as you've gone
about your work in Baghdad and throughout Iraq over
the years. Is this something that conceivably could
have happened to you either as an Australian or
perhaps even as Iraqi?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I would expect
so. I mean, at any given time, I mean, a matter of
circumstance can change your fate. I mean, for
example, here in what we're using as a live shot
position, there are materials with which you could
make a roadside bomb. And I mean, if you go into any
room virtually in the CNN bureau, you would find
insurgent material or propaganda of some sort, be it
stuff downloaded from the Internet for study, be it
CDs with films that perhaps going to be used for
stories.
So yes, this is something that you expose yourself to
by trying to explore the other voice, the other side
of the story of this war. It's just inherent with
trying to tell that tale, Fionnuala.
SWEENEY: And at that time in Ramadi, when Bilal
Hussein was arrested, is it fair to say that there
was a kind of lockdown that no journalist could enter
there independently? And indeed that was part of AP's
problem. They had to hire locally people such as
Bilal?
WARE: That's very much true. And if that was Bilal's
employment situation, as I understand it was, that's
very typical of the way things operate. It's
difficult to get somebody from one place into another
when an incident happens. They may have to cross
sectarian dividing lines. They may have to go through
military cordons. So people employ people in those
areas.
Now if you're an Iraqi, a professional
photojournalist, if you walk onto the street with a
camera, be it stills or video for television, then
you must have some kind of relationship or identity
with the insurgents. You cannot exist there without
their permission.
Now it's up to the individual how they forge that and
how they frame that relationship.
SWEENEY: Santiago Lyon, isn't one of the issues for
AP here is that Bilal was really trained by you as a
photographer? He owned, if I'm not mistaken, an
electrical or a computer shop. And when you began to
first use his services, you helped him train as a
photographer. It wasn't so much that he came to you
as a photographer offering his services.
LYON: Well, we initially made contact with Bilal in
the middle of 2004 when we were sending people into
Fallujah at that time to see what the situation was.
The city of Fallujah was at that time being bombarded
constantly by coalition forces. And we wanted to tell
the world the story of what was going on inside.
We met Bilal through a driver who was in our
employment. And he offered to act as a guide for us.
And he showed our reporters and photographers around
Fallujah. And then he expressed an interest in making
photographs for us. Apparently he'd had a passion for
photography from an early age. And so, we gave him a
camera. And he started to make pictures for us and
started to deliver those images by taxi to our
Baghdad offices. And we saw that, you know, he was
able to move around quite easily, being from Fallujah
and knowing people in Fallujah. And gradually, his
photography began to improve.
And you know, we made very clear to him what we
expected from him as a journalist and as a
photographer for the AP. And he understood that. And
we trained him in the use of his equipment. And he
gradually began to produce a steady stream of images
for us from Fallujah, which was really quite unique
at the time, given the military situation there.
So he was, in effect, a unique set of eyes onto the
situation in a very challenging environment in Iraq.
And we believe that that's really the reason behind
all of this, that the photographs that he was taking
showing the effects of the war on the civilian
population and showing insurgent activity in and
around Fallujah became an inconvenient truth for the
U.S. government. And they decided to silence that.
So they arrested him. He's been in jail for the last
19 months. No charges, no evidence produced. And we
think it's completely outrageous and goes against
everything that the United States stands for in terms
of democracy, rule of law, and a free press.
SWEENEY: Michael Ware, Santiago Lyon says that Bilal
Hussein was a unique set of eyes in what was an
inconvenient truth for the U.S. military. In this
changing nature of combat as we've seen with the Iraq
War since the invasion, is this a very common
phenomenon for journalists, particularly local ones?
WARE: Well, yes. More and more, you're seeing the
Western media rely on local photographers, cameramen,
and indeed reporters or journalists to gather the
material they need to tell the story, to impart the
news.
Now that's because in this conflict more so simply
than any other I've been involved with, or that I'm
aware of, journalists are considered legitimate
military targets by almost all of the sides out there
on the Iraqi battlefield.
If you look at their targeting profiles, journalists
are considered either part of the problem or they
have a bias one way or the other for a particular
sect, for the West, anti-Islam, whatever it may be.
Or your value in terms of propaganda purposes as a
kidnap victim or a death is so great, that it
outweighs anything that you might be able to offer as
a journalist in their mind.
So yes, more and more, we're seeing Iraqis being
used. We're seeing journalists specifically targeted
here in this war. So that has thrown up a whole
complex series of questions and ethical dilemmas
about the nature of the way this war is covered.
Although at the end of the day, you still want to get
out there and see it with your own eyes. And as much
as you can, that's what you still do. Fionnuala?
SWEENEY: Santiago Lyon of the Associated Press in New
York, Michael Ware of CNN in Baghdad, thank you both
very much indeed for joining us.