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Length: 8:07
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY
KING LIVE")
LARRY KING: Wouldn't you like to be liked?
DICK CHENEY: Well, up to a point. But, if you wanted
to be liked, I should never have gotten involved in
politics in the first place. Remember, success for a
politician is 50 percent plus one. You don't have to
have everybody on board.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER: Real talk from Dick Cheney.
The vice president sat down for an exclusive
interview with Larry King earlier. Cheney basically
said he didn't care what Americans think of him. He
also said Alberto Gonzales is a good man and he's
standing by the U.S. Attorney General. He called
questions about the firings of federal prosecutors a
congressional witch-hunt.
But it's his blunt opinion of the war in Iraq has
that gotten a lot of people's attention.
Here's Vice President Cheney in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
KING: OK. Let's go back. On this program, May of
2005, you said the Iraq insurgency was in the last
throes.
CHENEY: Right.
KING: Why were you wrong?
CHENEY: I think my estimate at the time -- and it was
wrong; it turned out to be incorrect -- was the fact
that we were in the midst of holding three elections
in Iraq, elected an interim government, then
ratifying a constitution, then electing a permanent
government; that they had had significant success. We
had rounded up Saddam Hussein.
I thought there were a series of these milestones
that would in fact undermine the insurgency and make
it less than it was at that point. That clearly
didn't happen. I think the insurgency turned out to
be more robust.
And the other thing that happened, of course -- this
was prior to the actions of al Qaeda in Iraq -- Abu
Musab al Zarqawi with his bombing of the mosque up at
Samarra in early '06, that, in effect, helped to
precipitate some of the sectarian conflict that led
to a lot of the Shia on Sunni battles.
KING: In that same interview, you said that the
Iraqis were well on their way to being able to defend
themselves.
Why not? Why aren't they? Why aren't we gone?
CHENEY: They're not there yet -- because the job is
not done yet, Larry.
When you think about what's been accomplished -- in,
what, about four years now since we originally
launched in there -- they have in fact held three
national elections, and written a constitution. There
are a significant number of Iraqis now serving in the
armed forces, serving as part of the security forces.
We have made progress on that front.
We have also obviously with the surge the President
decided on last January, I think, made significant
progress now into the course of the summer.
The real test is whether or not the strategy that was
put in place for this year will in fact produce the
desired results.
KING: Will those results be in place on that day in
'09 when you leave?
CHENEY: I believe so. I think we're seeing already
from others -- don't take it from me, look at the
piece that appeared yesterday in "The New York
Times," not exactly a friendly publication -- but a
piece by Mr. O'Hanlon and Mr. Pollack on the
situation in Iraq.
They're just back from visiting over there. They both
have been strong critics of the war. Both worked in
the prior administration, but now saying that they
think there's a possibility, indeed, that we could be
successful. So, we will know a lot more in September,
when General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker come
back and report sort of to the Congress and the
president on the situation in Iraq and whether or not
we're making progress.
Obviously, we want to get it done as quickly as
possible.
KING: You don't know what to expect, though, do you?
Or do you?
CHENEY: Well, I think it's going to show that we will
have made significant progress. The reports I'm
hearing from people whose views I respect indicate
that indeed the Petraeus plan is in fact producing
results.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We, of course, haven't been talking to Mr.
Cheney's intelligence sources; on the other hand, we
have got Michael Ware, who has been there in Baghdad
and all across Iraq almost nonstop since before the
fighting began. Right now, he's embedded with
American forces in Diyala Province, coming to us
through a nightscope camera. Because of the danger
there, they're not allowed to turn on any camera
lights.
Michael, you just heard the vice president saying
that he expects General Petraeus to report
significant progress when he gives his assessment
come September.
What do you think of the vice president's evaluation?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson,
there is progress. And that's indisputable. Sectarian
violence is down in certain pockets. There are areas
of great instability in this country that are at last
finding some stability.
The point, though, is, at what price? What we're
seeing is, to a degree, some sleight of hand. What
America needs to come clean about is that it's
achieving these successes by cutting deals primarily
with its enemies. We have all heard the
administration praise the work of the tribal sheiks
in turning against al Qaeda. Well, this is just a
euphemism for the Sunni insurgency. That's who has
turned against al Qaeda.
And why? Because they offered America terms in 2003
to do this. And it's taken America four years of war
to come round to the Sunnis' terms. And, principally,
that means cutting the Iraqi government out of the
loop. By achieving these successes, America is
building Sunni militias.
Yes, they're targeting al Qaeda, but these are also
anti- government forces opposed to the very
government that America created. And another thing to
remember, Anderson: yes, sectarian violence is down,
but let's have a look at that. More than two million
people have fled this country. Fifty thousand are
still fleeing every month, according to the United
Nations. So, there's less people to be killed.
And those who stay increasingly are in ethnically
cleansed neighborhoods. They have been segregated.
COOPER: Well, the vice president also referred to
this "New York Times" op-ed written by -- by Ken
Pollack and Michael O'Hanlon, who returned from Iraq.
They were applauding the military progress and the
Iraqi security forces' ability to hold areas and keep
insurgents out.
How much have the Iraqi troops themselves actually
improved?
WARE: Well, there has been improvement in the Iraqi
troops. They are standing up, to a greater degree, in
certain pockets.
But, honestly, Anderson, it is a myth to believe that
the Iraqi forces have been rid of their sectarian or
militia ties. No matter how much any commander wants
to tell you, the minute the American forces turn
their backs, these guys revert to form, be that Sunni
or Shia lines, Kurdish ethnic lines, or be it militia
lines.
So, there is still no sense of unity. And, without
America to act as the big baby-sitter, this thing is
not going to last. So, all these successes that
O'Hanlon and Pollack point to exist. They're real.
But the report is very one-dimensional. It doesn't
look at what's being done to achieve this and what
long-term sustainability there is.
I mean, these guys, unfortunately, were only in the
country for eight days. And they point to a success
story of a neighborhood in Baghdad called Ghazaliya.
They say, "it's peaceful. We could walk around in a
Sunni area."
Yes, that's because it's divided. And the Iraqi army
troops won't let the Shia in. And they're Shia army
troops. Just last week, there was an incident where
the Iraqi commander of those troops went to remove
all the furniture from a Sunni's house. And when a
fellow Shia protested, he arrested that Shia.
That's the success we're talking about. The question
is, is America prepared to pay this price? Yes, it
will give you the numbers on pieces of paper that
will allow your Congress to let you leave, but are
you willing to endure what will follow?
COOPER: Michael Ware, embedded with U.S. forces --
Michael, stay safe.
WARE: Thank you, Anderson.