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Length: 6:52
JOHN ROBERTS: U.S. and
Iraqi forces launched Operation Law and Order this
week in an effort to crack down on the sectarian
violence that's raging across Baghdad. And while
Shiite leader Muqtada al Sadr's whereabouts remain
unclear, will Iraqis have the chance to make real
progress politically and economically? Joining me now
is CNN correspondent Michael Ware. He is in Baghdad
for us. Romesh Ratnesar, assistant managing editor of
"Time" magazine joins us from New York. And with me
here in the studio, senior Pentagon correspondent
Jamie McIntyre.
On Wednesday Major General William Caldwell said
Iraqi forces are ready to implement the new security
plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CALDWELL: Unlike any time before when we have worked
to deliver a plan in the city, this time it truly is.
The Iraqis have put forth the political will. They
are demonstrating political will to follow through
and make the tough commitment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Michael Ware, how is this new crackdown
going? Any signs of success? How does it look for the
future?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It has actually been
a quiet few days but as the American commander for
Baghdad, the commanding general of the first cavalry
division said, what they believe is happening and
what's clearly happening, is that the militias and
the insurgents have simply melted back. The general
says they are sitting back waiting to see what we do.
We are studying them-- they are studying us, sorry,
and we know that there are some rough days ahead. So
initially, it has been some success. The borders have
been sealed and these operations simultaneously in
Baghdad, in the center of the country, and in Basra
in the south.
ROBERTS: Romesh, what do you think? Is this the way
out? Another question, too, on these joint security
stations that they are setting up with U.S. troops
now in these neighborhoods, could that put them at
greater risk? How long is it going to be before
somebody drives a truck bomb up to the gates to one
of those buildings?
ROMESH RATNESAR, TIME MAGAZINE: Well, I think they're
definitely going to be more exposed than they have
been at the large Forward Operating Bases where many
troops have been stationed in and around Baghdad for
the last several months. You know, I think that the
test of this operation always comes, you know, weeks
down the line. I mean, we have seen in the past, in
operations like this, the Americans and Iraqis have
been able to bring some stability to the areas that
they clear. The problem is that once they leave to
move on to the next neighborhood, the violence often
returns. The test will be do we have the resources
and the will this time to stick it out. I think that
is still a question that's going to be answered both
in Baghdad and Washington in the weeks ahead.
ROBERTS: One of the other big topics of discussion
this week, Jamie McIntyre, you did a terrific
timeline on this force in terms of research, was this
idea, who is providing these EFPs, these explosive
formed penetrators that are so deadly against U.S.
troops? A briefer in Baghdad said, we connect it to
the highest levels of the Iranian government, but
then on Thursday, General Peter Pace walked it back.
Let's take a listen to what he said about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: We do not
have proof that the senior leadership in Iran is
directing these activities in Iraq. But it is -- as
the secretary just pointed out, either way, either
they are and that's not good, or they don't know and
that's not good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: So Jamie, you had this big PR effort to say,
here is the threat against U.S. forces. Here is where
it is coming from. The whole thing goes off the
rails. The intelligence is now in question. Is
anybody going to believe them the next time they
claim the sky is falling?
JAMIE McINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was clearly -
it was clearly a debacle. I think Secretary Gates
said it best. He said that when -- he wanted the
presentation to be a factual presentation, no
adjectives, no adverbs, no assessments. But that
intelligence officer gave his assessment, an
assessment by the way that the U.S. believes to be
true. But that wasn't supposed to be part of the
presentation and the problem is it undermined the
whole presentation. Now they are trying to reel it
back in.
ROBERTS: He was supposed to tell people what he knew,
not what he believes.
McINTYRE: Exactly.
ROBERTS: The president, of course, earlier or later
on this week talked about the Quds Force. He called
it the "Cuds Force," it is the Quds Force, which is a
part of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, saying
they were at least the source for it. How high up the
chain it goes from there, he's not sure. Michael
Ware, does the Quds Force do anything without orders
from on high?
WARE: No, absolutely not. This is a strictly
regimented organization. I mean, this is one of the
premier special operations outfits arguably in the
world. It is certainly one of the most experienced.
It's been in all sorts of hotspots from Sudan to
Bosnia to Afghanistan and, of course, southern
Lebanon and its key partners there Hezbollah. So no.
The Quds Force does not do anything without orders on
high and basically it is known that the Quds Force
while nominally a part of the Revolutionary Guards
Corps, really takes its orders directly from the
office of the supreme leader himself.
ROBERTS: Jamie McIntyre, what are the military
options for going after the Quds Force?
McINTYRE: Well, they're targeting them on the ground
in Iraq, not in Iran. They are also trying to seal
the border and it is part of this general crackdown
and you've seen in some of these sweeps where they
have rounded up people that they have taken in
Iranians and they see that as further evidence of
their involvement.
ROBERTS: We should remind, as Michael Ware pointed
out earlier this week in a story he did, that the
United States military has worked with the Quds Force
in the past on different engagements, obviously.
Romesh, final question to you here. It looks like
Muqtada al Sadr has left for Iran. Let's take a quick
listen to what Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said
about that on Thursday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GATES, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I don't think he
went there for a vacation. I think they are very
concerned about this operation. And, frankly, I think
one possible outcome is that these guy will go to
ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Romesh Ratnesar, if in fact it is true that
he left because he fears for his safety, what's the
significance of that? Would it have any effect on
Mahdi militia operations?
RATNESAR: I am somewhat skeptical it would have any
effect because I'm skeptical that he has fled because
he fears for his safety at least in the long term. I
think that he's done this before. He has gone to Iran
on many occasions in the past. You know, his
representatives are already saying he plans to be
back in Iraq in the next few days. You know, I don't
think whether he goes to Iran or not has any real
impact on the kind of momentum of what's happening in
Iraq because as we know, it is not just the Mahdi
army. It is many groups. The national intelligence
estimate said we are fighting many wars there. It is
not just Muqtada al Sadr, and whether he comes or
goes I think has little bearing really on what the
action on the ground.
ROBERTS: Certainly, it seemed to give the U.S.
military a card there in the PR game. Romesh
Ratnesar, thanks very much; as well, Michael Ware and
Jamie McIntyre, as always, good to see you
both.