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Length: 4:36
LOU DOBBS: The war in Iraq tonight is at a pivotal
point. The first of more than 21,000 U.S.
reinforcements have arrived in Baghdad. It is far
from clear whether the president's new strategy will
work. Joining me now in our studios here in New York,
our Baghdad correspondent Michael Ware. Michael, good
to have you here.
From Chicago, General David Grange. One of our most
distinguished former military leaders and our
distinguished military analyst here, good to have you
here, Dave.
Let me start you, Michael Ware, fighting less than a
mile from the Green Zone. Two days of fighting.
Intense fighting, what does it mean?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's more of
the same quite frankly, Lou. I mean this is Haifa
Street. I can't tell you how many times I've
personally seen combat in Haifa Street. How many
times I've seen the insurgents there in the heart of
the capital regenerate themselves.
Now this was also a model at one stage for Iraqi
control. It was handed over to Iraqi security forces.
Yet again the American troops are back in there, it's
at least the third time that I know of.
DOBBS: General Grange, where are those Iraqi
battalions, what in the world are we doing?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST:
Well, just like any other war, we have advisers with
the foreign military. I remember it in Vietnam. You
have units that are good, you have units that are not
so good. I was fortunate to be with tough units that
were great fighters. Some are not. I think it's the
same thing in Iraq.
And if they don't have good leadership, if they're
poor soldiers in discipline, if they don't have the
will to fight for the central government, you are
going to have the same thing that Michael said. It's
just gonna turn back over to the enemy.
DOBBS: Give us your judgment, which is the biggest
threat right now? To our troops in -- particularly in
Baghdad: the Shia, the Sunni? Where is the enemy and
what are we to do with that enemy?
WARE: Look, I think to this day, the fact still
remains that the daily drip feed of American deaths
and casualties is by in large coming from the Sunni
insurgency. The Shia militias, the Shia death squads,
whilst they don't withhold fire from US forces, they
are not the principle target.
So it's still battling Sunni insurgents and al Qaeda
but the biggest threat to the mission is the civil
war, is the dominance of the Shia militias, is their
stranglehold on political power.
DOBBS: David Petraeus in his confirmation hearing and
he was recommended out, of course, by the Senate Arms
Services Committee. Dave, he said this is a test of
wills, it's hard but it's not hopeless. But he said
in conclusion there are no guarantees.
I commend the general for serious and sober and
honest talk. Do you think we'll continue to hear
honest assessments and honest judgments publicly
expressed by this general, a four-star, who will be
in charge of our troops in Iraq when he's confirmed
to lead those troops?
GRANGE: I believe we will, Lou. I think that General
Petraeus will tell it like it is. Hopefully he'll
have the political backing where he is allowed to
talk the truth. And can give reality as it is on the
ground. And I think that'll happen. It is all about
will. And I like his comment, that it's hard but it's
not hopeless. I mean he's a soldier. Of course it's
not hopeless. Anything is capable in warfare. And I
think with his leadership and some others that are on
their way over there and some that are there now, we
have a shot at it.
DOBBS: Let me ask you this, because the discussion is
turning, again, with now at least late, but at least
it is turning to sober assessment by many of our
political leaders in Washington.
What is your sense of what will occur in Baghdad, in
Iraq, with what is called a phased withdrawal with
the ability -- let's assume that General Petraeus is
successful and secures Baghdad? First, do you think
it is possible to do it with the level of troops and
the adequacy the Iraqi troops? What is your take?
WARE: Is there enough troops to completely secure
Baghdad, turn it into a bright and happy place? No.
Is it enough troops with a different kind of a tactic
to alter the security environment? Yes. Will it
defeat or destroy the enemy? No, not at all.
So while it's going to be changed, I'm afraid at end
of the day, I see nothing being done to attack the
fundamental dynamics that is crippling the U.S.
mission.
DOBBS: Michael Ware, General Grange, thank you both.
Appreciate it.