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Michael reacts to John McCain's latest attempt to convince people to stroll the streets of Baghdad.
CAMPBELL
BROWN: What we're hearing from the campaign trail
today. Here it is:
Not patriotic enough, badly informed and way too
inexperienced -- that's how John McCain and the
Republicans intend to hit Barack Obama in the general
election campaign.
And over the Memorial Day weekend, their strategy got
clearer and louder. Tonight in the CNN ELECTION
CENTER, we examine all of it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Over the holiday, both McCain and
Obama surrounded themselves with flags and rubbed
elbows with veterans. It was all about patriotism.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: On
this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken
line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in
the audience here today -- our sense of patriotism is
particularly strong.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I
have had the good fortune to know personally a great
many brave and selfless patriots who sacrificed and
shed blood to defend America. But I have known none
braver and none better than those who do so today.
BROWN: Many of those sacrificing and shedding blood
now are in Iraq. Today, an anti-war heckler provoked
a dramatic response from McCain, the kind that will
no doubt stick to him for a long time.
MCCAIN: I will never surrender in Iraq, my friends.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
MCCAIN: I will never surrender in Iraq.
Our American troops will come home with victory and
with honor. And that's my message to my friends. And
we are winning.
BROWN: Not only does McCain say that the U.S. is
winning; he also says Obama doesn't know it.
In an interview with the Associated Press, McCain
actually suggested he and Obama should visit Iraq
together. McCain was last there in mid-March. Obama
hasn't been to Iraq since 2006, before the U.S. troop
surge.
McCain says that's far too long, telling the
Associated Press -- quote -- "Look at what happened
in the last two years, since Senator Obama visited
and declared the war lost. He really has no
experience or knowledge or judgment about the issue
of Iraq, and he has wanted to surrender for a long
time."
The Obama campaign scornfully turned down McCain's
invitation to tour Iraq, a spokesman calling the
proposal -- quote -- "nothing more than a political
stunt" and saying, "We don't need any more Mission
Accomplished banners or walks through Baghdad markets
to know that Iraq's leaders have not made the
political progress that was the stated purpose of the
surge."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So what would McCain and Obama see if they
actually went to Iraq?
CNN's Michael Ware is based in Baghdad. And he's
going to join us right now, along with Fran Townsend,
who is in Washington. She's the former White House
Homeland Security Adviser and CNN national security
contributor. She's also a consultant to the U.S.
Chamber of Commerce and a member of the president's
Intelligence Advisory Board.
Welcome to both of you.
Michael, let me start with you.
Let's say McCain and Obama did go to Iraq together.
Would that visit, in your view, give them an accurate
picture of what it's like on the ground? What would
they be able to see and, more importantly, frankly,
what wouldn't they see?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, it's
hard to discern between campaign stunts and genuine
inquiry.
I know I would certainly like 20 minutes with both
the candidates, should they come here. But, I mean,
if you come to Iraq as a U.S. official, you remain
firmly within the bubble of U.S. protection. And we
have long known that what happens in the Green Zone
is far divorced from the reality on the ground. So,
all opinions will be skewed.
And that's just the reality of life. I mean, U.S.
officials who came here before were told that the
insurgency was in its death throes, that there was no
civil war, that you could walk the streets of
Baghdad, and that the Iraqi government was actually a
U.S. ally.
So, there is going to be severe limitations to what
anyone can learn. The other thing is, what are they
not going to be told? How much power has America
ceded to Iran to maintain the level of violence that
is so far down now at the moment? What has been the
price of this?
We have heard the U.S. commander of the war in Iraq,
General David Petraeus, confirm that the Iraqi
president himself is considered an Iranian agent of
influence. So, will they be told what's the real
price, Campbell?
BROWN: And, Fran, I know that you disagree with
Michael here, and you do say that there is real value
to be had by going over, by meeting with the troops,
and by talking with the generals.
FRANCES TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR:
Well, Campbell, I will say this.
I think Michael is right when he says that schedules
are carefully controlled when someone is on an
official visit. But I found, myself, in going, the
most valuable part of the trip are the unscheduled
interactions you have with soldiers and intelligence
officials, the things that aren't scripted, and that
are away from sort of the pro forma meetings.
And, so, I do think there is value in going there and
talking to people who are responsible for executing
our mission overseas.
BROWN: Michael, we just heard a few minutes ago
Senator McCain declare that the U.S. is winning in
Iraq. Does that match with what you are seeing on the
ground?
WARE: Well, let's say this, Campbell.
Everyone welcomes the drop in violence. I mean,
there's only been 19 U.S. casualties this month. In
relative terms, in the sense of a vicious war going
on, that's a good month. Iraqi civilians are dying
far less than they have at any almost any other point
certainly since the civil war, or since the height of
the insurgency.
But the question is, essentially, you have
consolidated Iranian power in this region. You have
left a long-term problem for your Arab allies to have
to deal with. And you have committed a significant
U.S. troop presence to this country and to this
region as a stabilizing influence for a long time to
come.
Now, if that's winning, then, yes, Senator McCain is
correct.
BROWN: Fran, Fran, do you agree with that assessment?
TOWNSEND: Well, I think there's no question, when we
look at the facts, attacks -- major security
incidents are down. Coalition forces have already
seized in 2008 more weapons than they seized in all
of 2006. And, so, the facts suggest there's real
progress.
Michael is right. The real question becomes whether
or not the Iraqi government itself can sustain it and
keep its people secure over the long term. And it's
got to -- part of that is convincing his neighbors
and its own people that the government represents all
Iraqis, both Shia and Sunni. And that remains to be
seen over the long term.
BROWN: Fran, let me also ask you. You say that
Obama's proposal to start withdrawing troops soon
after he is sworn in would encourage al Qaeda to wait
it out.
You have got to look at the numbers, though. There
are 30 percent of the public out there that believes
the war is something we should continue at this
stage. How do you justify then staying this course? I
mean, you are a realist. You know the political
environment we're operating in.
TOWNSEND: No, I think that's right. And I think the
case has got to be made to the American people,
setting artificial deadlines for withdrawing troops
is not the answer.
What the right answer is, is looking at results,
looking at the facts on the ground and relying on the
advice of commanders. What we want to do winning
victory is leaving a stable and secure Iraq that can
defend itself and that can govern itself.
BROWN: All right, Fran Townsend and Michael Ware,
both for us, thanks, guys.