Length: 9:53
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SMALL (11.5 MB)
The longest section of the interview we've seen so far (although still far from the "full" interview we were promised all day) has General Petraeus discussing timetables, militias, and sectarian violence. Michael then discusses the shift in the Democrat's view on ending the war and what the consequences of withdrawing too precipitously would be.
CAMPBELL
BROWN: The top U.S. Commander in Iraq, General David
Petraeus, spent a grueling two days testifying before
Congress this week. He told key members of the House
and Senate that the progress made remains fragile and
that further troop pullouts after the surge forces
leave would have to wait.
Today, President Bush backed his general, saying new
troop withdrawals will be halted until further
notice.
CNN's Michael Ware is standing by in Washington. He
interviewed General Petraeus today and asked him how
he thought the hearings went. Hi Michael.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, I sat down
with General Petraeus this morning after his two days
-- and that's more than 12 hours of testimony --
before Congress on Capitol Hill. Both he and
Ambassador Crocker presented their assessment of the
situation on the ground and provided their
recommendations for the way forward. And that
recommendation is that basically America has to keep
fighting this war. Let's listen to General Petraeus.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WARE: General Petraeus, after more than a dozen hours
of testimony in Congress, what do you think has been
accomplished? Do you think they get it?
GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, COMMANDER, MULTI-NATIONAL FORCE
- IRAQ: I think it was a good opportunity for a lot
of back and forth. And, again, we think that that --
we hope that that was useful for them and I'll tell
you, obviously we got certain messages from them as
well, as you would imagine.
WARE: You think it hit home?
PETRAEUS: And I think that some of those messages
will be heard in Baghdad as well and perhaps in some
other capitals.
WARE: And so, for example, issues like timetables. We
heard that raised perhaps less than one would have
expected. Do you think that's a part of you getting
your message across?
PETRAEUS: Well, one doesn't know, obviously. Again,
we do believe that, again, there have been gains as
we described. They're fragile, they're reversible,
and we certainly don't want to unduly jeopardize
those. We think therefore that having done the
substantial reduction that will be complete by July,
it does makes sense to let the dust settle, certainly
continue in assessments during that timeframe so that
we can then make judgments about when we can make
additional reductions or recommendations on
additional reductions.
WARE: And being perfectly frank with the view that we
both share from the ground, this war is far from
over, isn't it?
PETRAEUS: Well, it's tough and I think that
Ambassador Crocker accurately used the word hard. He
used it repeatedly and I think it's a correct
description. It is very complex.
WARE: We're not coming home any time soon, are we?
PETRAEUS: I think we will be engaged in Iraq, and,
again, that is the operative word, I think engagement
rather than perhaps exit. But engagement will
continue for some time. The question, of course, is
at what level, at what cost, and in what form?
WARE: There's no real sign that those conditions are
about to miraculously change, is there? There's no
short-term fix to any of the conditions that you're
obviously monitoring?
PETRAEUS: Well, it depends by area. I think you'd
agree that, for example, the transformation of Anbar
province over the course of the last 15, 18 months
has really been quite substantial; really dramatic in
fact. And in fact, that will allow a different
footprint when the surge is drawn down than we had
prior to the surge.
And more importantly, a different activity, a
different focus for our forces where there will be
two complete Iraqi divisions out there where there
were the -- there was certainly the elements of one
but a very beleaguered one back when, at the height
of the ethno-sectarian violence, when the surge
forces actually went in.
WARE: And that's the case, not really so much the
presence of two Iraqi army divisions, it's the
success of the awakening. This then is the result.
The nationalist resistance and all this tribes coming
--.
PETRAEUS: It is all of that. Yes it is. It is all of
that, because, again, when the population all of a
sudden shifts from either tacitly accepting or maybe
even actively supporting Al Qaeda and seeing them
cloaked in the term resistance, and then seeing them
for what they are, which is the purveyors of
extremist ideology, indiscriminate violence and even
oppressive practices.
Again, in the Sunni Arabs of the Euphrates River
Valley, on reflection, as they looked at it, when
they realized what they had let into their
communities, as you well know, rejected it over time.
And I think now they support the legitimate forces
who come from them as well, at least in the local
police.
Sons of Iraq out there, thousands of them have been
incorporated into local police, into the army, into
other governmental jobs. And now they are also
sharing in the bounty that is Iraq.
WARE: This Shia-dominated Iraqi government is very
cautious about the Sons of Iraq. And the Sons of Iraq
are very cautious about this Iraqi government. In
fact, they're formerly anti-government forces and you
and I both know when you talk to them now, they see
that the government remains the main threat. So their
transition to government forces is really just
locally.
PETRAEUS: Again, it varies on the location. I think
-- and I think by the way that that's understandable.
I think those are understandable emotions on both
sides. You have to -- people have forgotten pretty
quickly what Iraq was like in the fall of 2006 and
early 2007 which you remember very well.
But when there are 55 dead bodies a night turning up
on the streets of Baghdad, your nation's capital,
just from ethno-sectarian violence, not including Al
Qaeda on Sunni who aren't supportive of Al Qaeda's
activities or militia extremists on Shia who aren't
supportive of what they're trying to do. When you
have that going on, obviously it tears the fabric of
society.
WARE: So with this sectarian legacy of the war, and
all the competing interests, I mean, honestly,
General, do you really believe that there's an
interest in reconciliation in Iraq? Do you really
believe it's going to happen or is it going to be
some sort of forced accommodation?
PETRAEUS: Well, I do believe that there will be
accommodation. It will be because of self-interest,
but that's okay. That's why we all do it. That's why
economies flourish. It's why capitalism succeeds.
It's all about self-interest, but it is going to
require leaders who are going to have to make some
compromises and who will have to extend hands to each
other.
WARE: Do you think those leaders are there?
PETRAEUS: Interestingly, in the last couple of weeks,
along with all the other machinations and so forth
connected with Basra, and regardless of questions
about haste or suddenness or not setting the right
conditions or a variety of other legitimate
criticisms, concerns, you do see a coming together.
Interestingly, one aspect of the situation that has
brought them together is uniform concern -- unified
concern about the role of Iran.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
C. BROWN: Michael Ware is with us now live. And
Michael, is there any question do you feel like you
didn't have answered?
WARE: Well, no. As the interview unfolded and you've
only seen the beginning of it, General Petraeus gets
much more insightful, much more forthcoming as we
progress through our discussion. And he just touched
upon the key issue, which was Iran.
What you don't see here is how the General then
outlines the true dynamic of the war in Iraq as it
stands right now. Yes, he addresses the threat of Al
Qaeda and that's a threat that cannot be ignored. But
he then goes on to say that the existence of militias
in Iraq is going to be a reality.
He also says that it's an undeniable reality that the
Iraqi government is comprised of factions linked to
Iran and that Iranian agents of influence have
infiltrated the Iraqi government or are members of
the Iraqi government at the highest levels, from the
Iraqi president down.
So really, as he goes on, there's no question he
doesn't answer. He goes on to explain the real
dynamic of the war and it gives great insight into
why this war is not about to finish, Campbell.
C. BROWN: Michael, what about the view from Iraq, do
you think the Iraqis are paying any attention to this
testimony, do they feel like it matters to them at
all?
WARE: Well, to the ordinary Iraqi, no. I mean,
they're waiting for the presidential election. And
like most Americans, they have simplified the
election down to a bumper sticker; a vote for the
Republicans is a vote for the continuation of the
war. A vote for the Democrats means that it finishes
next year, which of course is not true.
Even as we spoke to senior Democrat Senator John
Kerry, he gave a much more nuanced view of the
Democrats' view of withdrawal. That doesn't
necessarily mean disengagement.
But there very much is a public mood back here in
America, they just -- people just want their sons and
daughters to come home and who can blame them? But
what people aren't really aware of is what the cost
and consequences of that going to be.
And Iraq those people are living those costs and
consequences. And they know that America, whether it
stays or whether it goes, is not really delivering
for them. So it's one kind of hell or another. So the
real question is what kind of hell is it that the
American public wishes to choose -- Campbell.
C. BROWN: All right. Michael Ware live for us
tonight. Michael, as always, thank you.