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Soledad O'Brien subs for Anderson and talks to Michael as well as Peter Bergen and Gloria Borger about John McCain's latest trip to Baghdad.
SOLEDAD
O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Also, we're talking about Iraq
tonight, another massive bombing today. John McCain,
Dick Cheney says things are better. Democrats are
promising to change policy.
John King is on the ground with Senator McCain. He's
got a fact check for us. Michael Ware joins us, too,
along with Peter Bergen and Gloria Borger.
O'BRIEN: While John McCain was talking to reporters
in Baghdad, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were
taking jabs at each other over Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:
Senator Obama holds up his original opposition to the
war on the campaign trail. But he didn't start
working aggressively to end the war until he started
running for president. So when he had a chance to act
on his speech, he chose silence instead.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:
With all due respect, she spoke about Iraq today, and
she tried to suggest that, well, my opposition was
just a speech in 2002, and since that time I've been
inconsistent. Let me be absolutely clear here. I
opposed this war in 2002. I opposed it in 2003, '04,
'05, '06 and '07.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Barack Obama, in fact, then an Illinois
Senator, was against authorizing the war back in
2002. Senator Clinton supported the bill.
Now, both senators have said the surge in troops last
fall has helped reduce violence in Iraq, and both
have outlined plans to withdraw U.S. troops as soon
as possible.
Joining us this evening to discuss all that, CNN's
Michael Ware and CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen.
Also, CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger is
joining us.
Let's begin with you, Peter. John McCain has said
that he thinks, in fact, that al Qaeda might increase
the number of attacks to tilt the election against
him. First of all, do you think that that is a
realistic scenario?
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Al Qaeda doesn't
care who wins the presidential election. Al Qaeda
wants to change American foreign policy in the Middle
East, and there is bipartisan consensus about that
foreign policy. All candidates envisage a strong U.S.
presence in the Middle East going forward, strong
support for Israel. Al Qaeda wants to change all
that.
So, you know, bin Laden himself came out with a
videotape before the last presidential election, in
which he made it clear, "Look, I don't care if it's
-- who wins the election. I want the American people
to change American foreign policy." Obviously, that
call did not work very well.
But the notion that al Qaeda wants to swing the
election for or against John McCain, I'm afraid, is
simply ludicrous. That is not the way these people
think.
O'BRIEN: Michael, let me ask you a question about the
surge. If the position is the surge is working -- and
John McCain has said that before -- one, would you
agree with it? And, two, does it continue to work if
those troops are moved?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Soledad, in a
sense, yes, the surge is working. But one thing I'd
be very keen to do is ask Senator McCain just what
exactly does he think the surge is? Violence is
currently down. Back to levels of about 2005. Now,
that still means a lot of Iraqis are dying every
month. It still means 30 or 40 or more Americans are
dying every month. That's completely unacceptable.
But this thing called the surge has brought those
levels of horrific violence down from last year. But
the surge isn't just about 30,000 troops sitting here
in Baghdad. That's not what's really done this.
What's really done this is cutting a deal with the
Ba'athist nationalist insurgency. What's done this is
Muqtada al-Sadr calling a truce. What's done this is
segregating this country into Sunni and Shia
enclaves, walling them off with massive blast
barriers, and arming local militias to protect
themselves.
Now will this survive if 30,000 troops go? Those
troops are just in Baghdad. What this is happening
and the levels of violence is across the country. So
there's much greater things at play here than just
30,000 troops. And in many ways, America is
mortgaging the future of this country and America's
interests to bring these numbers down by building
these militias -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Gloria, let me ask you a political question
here, and I think John King kind of raised it for us
the first time, where he said if you ask the question
in the polls about who's better off, you know,
handling Iraq, John McCain does well.
But if the public spins from that and starts
connecting him to sort of supporting a war that the
country doesn't necessarily support, that could be
problematic for him. How big of a risk do you think
that really is?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it is
difficult for John McCain. But, you know, if John
McCain has been anything, he's been consistent about
the war in Iraq. He's always supported it. He was for
the surge in Iraq before President Bush was for the
surge in Iraq, and so he's being completely
consistent here.
And what you see is John McCain acting as a commander
in chief.
And I think he was careful to point out to John King
in John's piece that there are things he does not
like about what's going on in Iraq, just as General
Petraeus pointed out last week to the "Washington
Post."
So both of them, and they're very close, are saying,
"Look, there are things we don't like. But here's
what we can take credit for." And as you know,
politicians are pretty good about taking credit for
things when they're going well.
O'BRIEN: Really? I'm shocked to hear that, Gloria.
You're absolutely surprising me.
BORGER: I know.
O'BRIEN: Let me give the final question to Michael
Ware tonight. Michael, a year ago when you and I
spoke, you told me that the Iraqi troops were a
disaster. I mean, they were just -- it was just a
mess. Do you see improvement there or do you see
improvement, but slowly, or no improvement at all?
WARE: Well, look, on an ad hoc local level, depending
on which American unit you're dealing with, they may
be dealing with a much better Iraqi counterpart than
you'll find elsewhere.
But I have to tell you, overall, the numbers of Iraqi
troops, the numbers of Iraqi police are growing. But
the building blocks of these forces are still
essentially militias or the insurgents. There really
is no national coming together, certainly within the
police. Absolutely fractured. Riddled with
Iranian-backed militias.
And now America is putting Sunni insurgents in police
uniforms to counterbalance that. You cannot walk away
from this country and leave it to anything like the
Iraqi security forces, and that's the sad reality.
America broke this place. This place is on its knees,
yet America cannot walk away without enormous cost to
itself and its own interests -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Michael Ware joining us tonight. Also, Peter
Bergen and Gloria Borger. Guys, thank you very much.
I appreciate it.