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Roland Martin's weekend special this week was "What They Didn't Say in the Debate" and in one segment, Michael (and Fran Townsend) discussed the Iran/Iraq situation as well as Afghanistan and how we need to proceed there. A lot of terrific points were made in this segment... and this stuff definitely should have been addressed in the debate and in the post-debate discussion. Kudos to Roland Martin for finally giving the people who know what they are talking about on these subjects time enough to actually explain what we-the-people need to know.
ROLAND
MARTIN: During the debate John McCain said the lesson
of Iraq is very clear: you can't have a failed
strategy that will then cause you to nearly lose a
conflict. Okay, that was clear?
Now, Barack Obama said the lesson of Iraq is we have
to use our military wisely and we didn't use it
wisely in Iraq. What they didn't say is when will our
troops come home. With me for a reality check is CNN
Correspondent Michael Ware, who is based in Baghdad,
and has covered the entire course of the war. Also,
Francis Townsend, who was President Bush's Homeland
Security Advisor and is now a CNN national security
contributor.
And Francis, I want to start with you.
FRANCIS TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR:
Sure.
MARTIN: Lot of conversation about Afghanistan. What
we need to do: more troops, more troops. How do we
accomplish that when we have so many troops in Iraq.
Something has to give on that issue.
TOWNSEND: Sure, Roland, but we already have some
troops drawing down and President Bush has talked
about that. And so you can begin to see and we have
already begun to build up troops in Afghanistan.
What I thought was most interesting and most
important about the discussion about Afghanistan is,
you can't solve it just if you are looking at
Afghanistan. You've got to deal with the tribal
areas, you've got to deal with Pakistan. This is a
region that is very closely integrated and you've got
to deal with it as a single problem set. And that's
what they talked about.
MARTIN: Now, Michael, we kept hearing the talking
about, again, the troops. McCain saying I've been
there and you should have been at the hearings.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN BAGHDAD CORRESPONDENT: (SIGH)
MARTIN: I take it you weren't quite impressed by
their conversation.
WARE: Yes, when he says he's been to Waziristan, I'm
not sure it's the same part that I've been to, but
anyway.
(LAUGHTER)
I mean, in all of this, Fran is right. Afghanistan
can't be looked at in isolation. But there's two
things: 'troops, troops, troops' is not going to fix
it. I mean, if you have ever been in that terrain,
that border swallows infantry divisions whole.
And correct me if I'm wrong, I think the Russians in
the '80s tried to flood it with troops and we saw how
that ended up. You want to tackle the problem of
Afghanistan, of a resurgent Taliban and nesting Al
Qaeda? There is one thing that I've yet to hear the
candidates talk about that strikes right at the heart
of this: the ISI, the Pakistani Intelligence Agency
that was part of creating the Taliban and continues,
within rogue elements or hard line elements of that
intelligence service -- though an ally, technically,
of Washington -- they're supporting the Taliban and
al Qaeda.
MARTIN: I also have to confront the reality, and we
talked about it before Michael, in terms of - even
with the surge, we focus on the military aspect. But
look, we paid a lot of folks off to put their weapons
down. Let's be just honest. And McCain even
mentioned, he did not vote to support the building of
Afghanistan after the Russians left. This is not a
military issue, Fran, it is also a matter of
humanitarian, building schools and businesses,
besides just frankly, killing folks.
TOWNSEND: No, that is absolutely right Roland. And
like Michael, I have been to Khost and I've been to
Jalalabad. These are the cities in Afghanistan right
on the border. And what you realize is, you do need
people to come in. You need the NGOs to be secure and
comfortable to come in to build health clinics, to
build schools. We built roads. We need more. But you
have to build an economy. It's not just holding and
clearing. It is actually building and helping the
Afghans. One of John McCain's right complaints about
Afghanistan is the Karzai government has not been
very effective in extending their rule outside Kabul.
And that has to change.
MARTIN: Lots of conversation about Iran, but is
Pakistan a more critical issue; making sure we are
straight with that. They have nuclear weapons, al
Qaeda, a new president. I mean, that is not a stable
situation for the United States.
WARE: No it's not. And obviously, Pakistan,
theoretically, should be a key U.S. ally. And
certainly the civil government there in Islamabad, I
firmly believe, as a newly democratic government,
clearly does side with the U.S. It's interests much
more closely align with Washington's. But as
President Bush, himself, asked the Pakistani prime
minister just a few months ago, who is controlling
your intelligence service? This is in military and
intelligence circles that dark nether world. The
civilian government in Pakistan is very weak and the
intelligence services and the military are very
strong.
TOWNSEND: We have a lot of confidence in Kayani, who
is the army chief of staff. Very impressive guy. He
did control the intelligence service before his
promotion. The problem is how deep does that control
go? It's not -- you know, we do continue to have
concerns, I think, the U.S. government intelligence
services, about penetration of the ISI by extremists.
WARE: But what can you do? There is very little you
can do.
MARTIN: Which, frankly, brings up this whole point
that came out yesterday, though, that how do you take
action if you have intelligence? The bottom line is
-- at one point, they're saying, well, they are our
partners and we're depending upon them. But they are
kind of not our partners, we have concerns. So what
do we do? Just sit here and do nothing?
TOWNSEND: Roland, one of the most stunning moments
last night, to me, was when Barack Obama sounded like
George Bush. Literally, Barack Obama said if we have
intelligence against al Qaeda senior leadership,
we're gonna will action it, militarily. The
interesting thing is President Bush has been saying
if we had information on where bin Laden is, no
options are off the table. I thought it was stunning,
there was this moment where all of a sudden Barack
Obama sounded like George W. Bush.
MARTIN: But actually, though, remember though, when
he initially said at the Democratic primary, Michael,
he was criticized for it.
WARE: Yeah.
MARTIN: But then, later, people said well, actually
it really wasn't a bad idea. It was sort of like a
reverse. I mean, that was surprising as well. Because
McCain also criticized that, but as you said,
President Bush had done the same thing. Dealing with
terrorism, I want to bring up the economy as well. No
discussion about how terrorism, globally, could still
impact the American economy.
TOWNSEND: Look at 9/11 and we weren't -- we had a
budget surplus. We were not in conflicts in two
places around the world. If you had a terrorist
attack now with the fragility of our economy, imagine
the recession. Imagine the size and impact on our
economy and not a word when they are asked about the
potential of a 9/11 here in this country. And the
biggest issue before us today is the economy. Neither
candidate makes the connection to the potential
impact on our fragile economy, if there were a
terrorist attack. Stunning.
MARTIN: Michael?
WARE: Yeah, and as you well know, Fran. Al Qaeda and
some of the other hard-line Islamic militant groups,
you don't think they're paying attention to these
things?
MARTIN: No, they weren't watching, no.
WARE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blind as bats.
I mean, they are constantly seeking for, looking for
the weak points. They are very savvy at staying on
message, and getting, pardon the expression, as much
bang for their buck. Don't forget terrorism is about
capturing hearts and minds, instilling fear, and they
have proven to be very adept at that. So, we have
seen them do it before. Target something like the
economy. So, yeah there is a vulnerability there and
you do need to be aware of it.
MARTIN: Again, so much that they could have talked
about, they didn't talk about and that's a shame.
That's a shame.
WARE: No.
MARTIN: Francis, Michael, I certainly appreciate it.
Thanks a bunch.
Now that we have discussed some of the most important
issues McCain and Obama didn't talk about in their
debate. I have a question left: What are you prepared
to do?