AC: "There's no al Qaeda
training camps, and there's very little al Qaeda
activity."
Thursday, September 10, 2009
Length: 4:41
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The fourth day of the special reporting from
Afghanistan gives us a discussion amongst Anderson
Cooper, Peter Bergen, and Michael. It is already
9/11 in Afghanistan, and the discussion centers on
what has happened to the search for Osama bin Laden
and whether al Qaeda is still active in that
country.
ANDERSON
COOPER: Welcome back. We're at Forward Operating Base
Geronimo in the heart of Helmand province. This is
held by the U.S. Marines, who go out on patrol every
day. And they're helping retrain the Afghan national
army.
We got involved in Afghanistan because of what
happened on September 11. We're just a few hours away
from the anniversary in the United States. Already
here in Afghanistan, it is 9/11.
We wanted to take a look at where is al Qaeda today.
You hear politicians in Washington talking about
what's happening here as a hunt for al Qaeda. But you
don't hear a lot of folks on the ground here talking
about al Qaeda. We're going to talk about that with
Peter Bergen and Michael Ware.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Michael, in Washington, you hear this war
being presented as a war against al Qaeda, as a hunt
for al Qaeda. But here on the ground, you don't
really hear much about al Qaeda.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's because
this is not a hunt against al Qaeda, Anderson. You
don't hear the Afghans in the combat zones in
southern Afghanistan or eastern Afghanistan, talking
about al Qaeda.
That's why America originally invaded Afghanistan way
back in 2001, because al Qaeda was given sanctuary
here by the Taliban. America recognized that as a
national security threat.
Well, that national security threat is no longer
here. It's based in Pakistan. There's no al Qaeda
training camps, and there's very little al Qaeda
activity.
The bulk of the day-to-day fighting, the bulk of the
bombings, the bulk of the shootings, almost all of
them are being committed by Afghan Taliban. So this
war now is not so much about Osama bin Laden and his
al Qaeda network, Anderson.
COOPER: And the Taliban, Peter, is totally different
than al Qaeda. I mean, there are linkages, especially
in Pakistan. But what's the linkage?
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well,
I'd say increasingly the Taliban has been influenced
by al Qaeda, both ideologically and tactically. The
Taliban were a very provincial group of people when
they ran this country. But they're talking about the
global jihad, they're operating very much like al
Qaeda in Iraq. It's an IED war. It's a suicide attack
war. So they've moved together ideologically and
tactically with al Qaeda, which is part of the
problem here.
COOPER: But when -- I mean, is it accurate then for
Washington to say that this is a battle against al
Qaeda?
BERGEN: Certainly not here in Helmand, Anderson. As
we've heard repeatedly, al Qaeda doesn't have much of
a presence here. They are more of a problem in
eastern Afghanistan. And the calculation is if
international forces left, the Taliban would be back,
not because, you know, they're so strong but because
the Afghan government is so weak. And if the Taliban
came back, they would again offer safe haven to al
Qaeda.
COOPER: Michael, I guess, that is the argument for
the politicians. They say, "Well, look, if
Afghanistan, you know, gets weaker, if the Taliban
takes over, then this would be a home for al Qaeda."
WARE: Well, that is a possibility. But it assumes an
awful lot. It assumes, firstly, that this government
will fall apart to such a degree that the Taliban
would come back.
Very few people actually can see that happening in
the short- to medium-term future. And if you read the
latest traffic between al Qaeda and the Taliban,
you'll see that there are differences in their
messages. And, indeed, one of the most recent Taliban
messages stressed Pashtun representation and
self-determination as its primary objective.
So the Afghan Taliban are fighting for one thing. Al
Qaeda is fighting for another. Al Qaeda is fighting a
transnational agenda. The Taliban are not.
And if the Taliban did get a toehold here in
Afghanistan again, they probably won't be running the
country. And it would be such a risk for them to
bring al Qaeda with them. I'm not sure the Taliban
goes that far down the ideological road with al
Qaeda, especially when you talk directly to these
Afghan Taliban -- Anderson.
COOPER: And Peter, the hunt for Osama bin Laden, do
we know how active it is? Do we have any sense of the
status of it?
BERGEN: It's very active. But since the battle of
Tora Bora, in December of 2001, there's been no
actionable intelligence about where bin Laden is.
There are informed hypotheses that he's in the
northwest frontier province of Pakistan in the tribal
areas, somewhere up north. But these are important --
these are basically guesses. They're not
intelligence.
COOPER: But the U.S. has had more success lately in
hitting some of these al Qaeda leaders in Pakistan
with drones.
BERGEN: Indeed. I mean, the Bush administration amped
up the drone program. There were 34 attacks under
Bush in the last year of his administration. There
have already been 36 under Obama. So Obama's actually
ratcheted up this program, and they've taken out
about half the leadership. They've been quite
effective.
COOPER: All right. Peter Bergen, Michael Ware,
thanks.