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SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I
will never surrender in Iraq, my friends.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
MCCAIN: I will never surrender in Iraq.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: On
issue after issue, John McCain is offering more of
the same policies that have failed for the last eight
years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER: Senators John McCain and Barack
Obama speaking out today on the campaign trail,
throwing some punches at each other as well.
Senator McCain has been slamming Obama on his Iraq
policy. McCain says Obama is out of touch with what
is really happening on the ground in Iraq. Obama
paints McCain as, well, simply being out of touch.
Time for a reality check with CNN's Michael Ware,
live in Baghdad, and, once again, Frances Townsend,
former White House Homeland Security Adviser and CNN
national security contributor.
Michael, Senator McCain invited Obama to travel to
Iraq, saying he was looking for the opportunity to --
quote, unquote -- "educate Obama." Realistically -- I
mean, obviously, there's a lot of policy involved.
But what exactly would the two be able to see? How
accurate is the information that is passed -- how
beneficial are these kind of trips?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, I
mean, obviously, there's a great need for education
about the situation here in Iraq.
You cannot pull out without serious consequences, nor
can you stroll the streets of Baghdad. So, there's
questions to be raised with both campaigns there.
Now, like any U.S. officials that come to this
country, any campaign members, anyone running for
office who comes to this country is going to see the
rooftops of houses as they fly over them, perhaps
some desert as they whisk over the top of that, and
the inside of U.S. bases and the U.S. Embassy, where
they're bombarded with briefings and PowerPoint
slides.
They will be totally divorced from the Iraqi reality.
And any Iraqi officials they will talk to, they're
certainly not going to be straight-shooting. They
haven't been since the war began. Why would they
start now? It's not in their interest to do so.
They certainly won't get a real feel for the fact
that 90,000 former insurgents now on the U.S. payroll
are protecting large chunks of the country for
America, while other large chunks of the country are
protected by Iranian-backed militias who are pursuing
Iranian interests, as well as their own.
So, really, it's going to be a very skewed picture
that anyone could hope to get -- Anderson.
COOPER: Frances, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Ryan
Crocker, says al Qaeda in Iraq -- and I quote -- "has
never been closer to defeat than they are now."
At this point, though, how much of the violence is
really due to al Qaeda in Iraq, and how much is due
to sectarian actors and other forces?
FRANCES TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR:
Well, Anderson, it's important to be clear about the
facts.
All violence, whether it's sectarian or al Qaeda, is
down across the board. These are the lowest levels of
security incidents in four years that they're seeing
right now. This is progress.
Now, al Qaeda has said, in their own statements, that
Iraq was the central battle and that they couldn't
lose it. Well, they're back on their heels. It will
take a sustained effort by Iraqi forces to maintain
that. We have seen the recent progress by Iraqi
forces. They are conducting clearing and holding
operations on their own, without their American
advisers. All of this is positive, but they have to
do it over the long term.
COOPER: Well, I mean, in Basra, they needed serious
backup from both British and U.S. forces. In fact,
that was really instrumental in turning the tide
there in Basra to the degree that it has been turned.
But the question is, I mean, the White House and John
McCain and others like to focus on al Qaeda and talk
about al Qaeda in Iraq. Do you have a sense of how
much al Qaeda is really -- I mean, of a percentage of
attacks, how much is al Qaeda? How much are other
forces?
TOWNSEND: You know, I'm not really -- I'm not clear
on what the actual percentage breakdown is.
COOPER: OK.
TOWNSEND: I will say this to you, though. The
large-scale attacks against civilians are down. But
the important part to that success is going to be
maintaining it.
COOPER: Michael, let me ask you the question. Al
Qaeda, compared to the other forces killing folks in
Iraq, where does -- what's the percentage; do you
know?
WARE: Well, in terms of fighters in the field, they
would be lucky to be 2 percent of those carrying
weapons in this country, Anderson.
Yes, they're the guys responsible for the spectacular
attacks, the suicide bombings and the car bombings
that just slaughter innocent civilians. That's true.
That's got great political impact. But, in terms of
the day-to-day grind, they're virtually nonexistent.
They're barely attacking U.S. troops. They're more
focused on killing other Iraqis. They're too busy
trying to launch a war with the Shia. They're too
busy, under pressure, to be able to continue
operating.
And, look, let's face it. They were given Iraq on a
platter for their next platform after Afghanistan.
They had their moment. Now they have been withered
down to this gnarly operating series of terrorist
cells that they were always designed to be. They're
essentially going to be a stone in the shoe of this
society, like they are in countless societies across
the world.
They're not really the war here, and they haven't
been for a long time, if they ever were. The real war
here is the competition between America and Iran for
influence and an attempt to hold this region together
without fracturing it completely, Anderson.
COOPER: Frances, do you agree with Michael?
TOWNSEND: Well, to Michael's point, a successful end
to the conflict in Iraq must be that Iraq is a stable
democracy that can secure its people and its borders.
That includes not only from al Qaeda but from Iran.
COOPER: Frances Townsend, we appreciate you being on
the show, first time. Thanks for being on.
Michael Ware, always good to talk to you. Stay safe,
Michael.