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CAMPBELL
BROWN: This was day two of testimony on Capitol Hill
for the top American officials in Iraq.
General David Petraeus says it is unlikely he will
call for another troop buildup, but he also can't say
when more troops will come home. During more than
seven grueling hours in front of House members,
Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker made it clear
they think a rapid U.S. withdrawal, like the
Democrats have been calling for, would be risky.
The general told lawmakers he's just as frustrated as
they are, but he can't be more specific about
bringing more troops home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS, COMMANDING GENERAL OF THE
MULTI-NATIONAL FORCE-IRAQ: We very much share the
frustration. Those of us who have been at this for a
long time obviously want the war to end as much as
anybody else, perhaps maybe more. We're not after the
Holy Grail in Iraq. We're not after Jeffersonian
democracy. We're after conditions that would allow
our soldiers to disengage. And that is in fact what
we are doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: After two days of hearings, it's clear that
Democrats are starting to come to terms with the fact
that there is no quick way out of Iraq.
And our Baghdad correspondent, Michael Ware, has been
watching the Iraq hearings in Washington. He's
joining us now, along with senior political
correspondent Candy Crowley, who is in South Bend,
Indiana, where Senator Barack Obama is campaigning.
And, Michael, let me start with you. You had a chance
today to talk with Foreign Relations Committee member
and 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry.
Let's listen to part of your interview now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This is not
dissimilar to Vietnam. Right now, this war is about a
hole we have dug for ourselves, which we can't get
out of easily without a perception of loss.
It's deeply frustrating, because we're spending $10
billion to $12 billion a month putting young
Americans' lives on the line for a status quo that is
almost absolutely certainly going to be there when
the next president comes in next January, if it isn't
worse.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And whilst it was
this current administration that created this problem
set, you're saying that the next administration can
essentially walk away, be it in a responsible manner
or -- or not?
KERRY: Walk away is a very loaded word and a
dangerous word. And I'm not talking about walking
away.
If you -- if you simply withdrew them and left
everybody to their own devices, there's going to be a
greater level of violence than the violence that
would exist anyway. I mean, that, I am convinced of.
But if you come in and they have a sense, wow,
America is now gearing up for how they begin to
withdraw, and what they leave when they withdraw is
something we're going to have to deal with, because
we're here, you have begun to shift the dynamics in a
way that begins to tell you better exactly what your
options really are and how you begin to play that
out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Michael and Candy back with us now.
And, Michael, let me ask, did you walk away from that
interview with Kerry today feeling like he had a real
sense for the reality on the ground in Iraq, as you
see it?
WARE: Well, yes and no. Certainly, what we heard from
Senator Kerry, from what I understand, is a much more
nuanced view of the Democrats' view of a withdrawal
from Iraq. It's simply not the bumper-sticker version
that we're hearing from the Democratic candidates
fighting it out for nomination right now.
He's talking about maintaining some kind of a
presence and reshaping America's focus. He was aware
of the vacuum that American withdrawal will leave.
However, he did not seem, I think, to be quite aware
of the realities of Iran's role, in the sense of how
Iran will fill that vacuum.
He was very much looking to Iran to evolve into a
much more benign influence in the region. Now, he
believes that renewed American diplomatic efforts can
help shape that. But he also talked about this blood
that will flow after America retreats, or America
withdraws.
Now, he seemed to think that, in whatever conflict
might emerge, eventually, there will be a power
equilibrium between rival factions. Now, in that, I
think that could be wishful thinking. And if that's
the premise for a Democratic plan going forward, that
could be potentially dangerous -- Campbell.
BROWN: And, Candy, Democrats are in a tough spot
here. And I'm not just talking about the presidential
candidates, but Democrats in general.
They have got their constituents saying, bring the
troops home, you know, listening to these generals
saying, you know, advising against it, saying there's
no real easy way to do that. How are they managing
it?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT:
Well, they're managing it -- this is a large dose of
reality.
You remember, Campbell, we went through so many votes
last year about timetables for withdrawal, about
under what conditions the troops would come home,
time and time again. You don't see those votes
anymore, because the reality is, they had hoped that
along the way, as the war progressed, they would be
able to pick off some Republicans, that they would be
able to set a timetable.
But with the surge came some sort of "improvement" --
and we will put that in quotations -- on the ground,
so the Republicans did not defect in the way the
Democrats thought they would. The reality is that
only one thing is going to change this dynamic, and
the Democrats know that. And that is November
elections. And that won't even begin to take shape,
whoever is elected, until January of next year. So,
they have come to understand reality.
And I think, as you saw in today and yesterday, was
that kind of frustration.
BROWN: All right, stay there, guys. I want to talk
about whether the general's testimony is changing
what Senators Clinton and Obama are saying on the
trail -- coming up next.
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CAMPBELL
BROWN: General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan
Crocker were back on Capitol Hill today talking about
Iraq.
Meanwhile, on the campaign trail, two of the
presidential candidates were also talking about the
war and what they plan to do about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: One candidate will continue the war and
keeping troops in Iraq indefinitely. One candidate
only says he will end the war. And one candidate is
ready, willing and able to end the war.
OBAMA: The person you want answering the phone at
3:00 a.m. is the person who has read the intelligence
reports, who is asking the tough questions about why
we want to invade a country like Iraq that had
nothing to do with 9/11. You want to have somebody
who has good judgment.
And there's only one out of the remaining candidates
who qualifies on that front.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: With me again, senior political correspondent
Candy Crowley and Baghdad correspondent Michael Ware.
And, Candy, let me go to you on this. Here are the
candidates differentiating themselves on the war in
Iraq, but do the voters, do you think, really see a
difference between the two of them? And I'm talking
about the Democrats -- in terms of going forward,
what they would do if elected?
CROWLEY: In terms of going forward, they don't. I
think the Democratic Party, certainly those who came
out in the primary season, made up their minds a
while back that, no matter who they nominated -- and
this was when Joe Biden was still in the race and
Chris Dodd and Bill Richardson -- they made up their
minds that all of these candidates would put the war
on a sharply different path, towards an exit plan.
So, I think they made up their minds. Then, as you
recall, Hillary Clinton, who had voted for the war,
got a pretty tough start on her presidential
campaign. She got booed a couple of times when she
went before Democrats. But she was able to pivot,
became an anti-war person out front. And now I think,
basically, that particular issue has been put to
rest.
The experience issue is something else, who's got the
best experience to actually put this plan into
action. But I think as far as the issue itself, most
Democratic voters believe that either one of these
candidates would get them out of Iraq.
BROWN: And, Michael, based on your experience on the
ground there, if anybody's withdrawal plan were put
into effect, what do you think happens?
WARE: Well, it depends on the nature of that
withdrawal plan.
But, certainly, in the pure sense of what I think
much of the Democratic base is hoping for, is simply
an end to this war under any circumstances, there
would be disaster of an unholy scale. I mean, really,
there would be blood flowing. There would be regional
proxy war. And that's something that I have noticed,
for example, with Ambassador Ryan Crocker's
testimony.
When he's been asked about what would be the
consequences or what would happen if we withdrew too
soon, he's not gone as far as, say, he did with us
just a few weeks ago, where he said his grave concern
is that you would see a regional proxy war develop in
and around Iraq involving three of the world's
richest oil reserves.
And what we're essentially talking about is a
situation like Lebanon in the 1980s, with militia
forces going against each other and infighting, all
with foreign backers. And, really, that's what we're
talking about, is a vacuum and what it will be filled
with. And it will be filled with violence and it will
be filled with the interests of many of America's
adversaries.
BROWN: All right, Michael Ware for us, his expertise,
along with Candy Crowley and her expertise from the
campaign trail.
Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.