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Anderson talks to Michael (it's morning in Baghdad!) and David Gergen about Senator Obama's stated intention to listen to the ground commanders about ending the war.
ANDERSON
COOPER: Up next, we'll dig deeper with our Michael
Ware on the ground in Iraq and former presidential
advisor David Gergen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA: My commitment to end the war is one
that dates back to 2002. Senator Clinton's commitment
to end the war dates back to her decision to run for
president. And I think the American people can make a
decision in terms of who they really trust to want to
bring this war to an end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A common theme from the candidate, using
Senator Clinton's vote for the war as a reason to
trust him to end the war. Of course, Senator Clinton
says she didn't vote for the war; she voted to give
George Bush the authority. Anyway.
Senator Obama told me today the strategy in Iraq
continues to be a failed one. He believes U.S. forces
should be redeployed, in some cases places like
Afghanistan. And Senator Obama questions how the
fight in Iraq has really made any of us safer.
A lot of ground to cover. We're digging deeper.
Joining us again is CNN's David Gergen. Also with us
tonight from Iraq, CNN's Michael Ware, who is
embedded with U.S. troops in Baghdad.
Michael, Obama's call for a withdrawal over 16
months, one to two combat brigades each month in
consultation with ground commanders -- the ground
commanders you talk to, what do they say about that?
I mean, what do they say would ensue during and after
those 16 months?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the
key phrase in that sentence is "in consultation with
ground commanders." If, indeed, a President Obama
were to listen to his ground commanders, right now as
the situation stands, without dramatic change, they
would not be recommending withdrawal, certainly at a
pace like that or within that time frame. Or they
would not be looking for withdrawal at all.
We hear General David Petraeus right now saying we
need to pause. This is so tenuous. It's wafer-thin,
the situation right now. And General Petraeus has
said that we need to keep these troops here and
assess and see how we go forward.
You start pulling troops out, once you drop down to a
level where there's only enough American soldiers to
defend their rear as they pull out, you will see
bloody mayhem strike out in this country, Iran press
its advantage, and al Qaeda will reignite --
Anderson.
COOPER: David, Clinton's arguing the Democrats can't
believe Obama is going to follow through on his
promise to withdraw troops based on a former aide's
comments. We just heard his response.
Does this, I mean, have any impact on voters?
Basically, Obama says, "Well, look, Senator Clinton
and I basically say the same thing. We're going to
consult with ground commanders on a withdrawal
timetable."
GERGEN: I don't think it has much impact on the
nomination fight, Anderson. If anything, there are --
in some states, Barack's, you know, continuous
opposition to the war has helped him a little bit
versus Senator Clinton.
But in the general election, this is going to be a
hard-fought issue, because Senator McCain has staked
out a position. However wrong it may have been to get
into Iraq, he's been proven prophetic and right about
the need for a surge and what it might do. You know,
to have him stand up against either Democrat is going
to provide a sharp cleavage.
And I must tell you, if the Democrat wins the White
House, to go to Michael Ware's point, the Democrats
are going to have a real dilemma, because he will
have promised the country that he's going to get out,
or she's going to get out rapidly. But yet, the
reality on the ground is, you start pulling the plug,
you could also unleash chaos, and then you would be
the president who lost Iraq. And if you lose Iraq,
your whole presidency could come unraveled.
So it's going to be a dilemma that the Democrats will
need to think through carefully and be very careful
what they promise in the campaign. Because, as
Michael says, when they get in there, they may find,
if they do, the reality is very, very tough about
getting out too quickly.
COOPER: Well, Michael, let's talk about the reality
of political pressure. Senator Obama and also Senator
Clinton talk about, you know, the need to put
pressure on the Iraqi government in order to try to
force reconciliation, in order to try to get them to
meet the political benchmarks that President Bush had
set. Is that even possible? I mean, does pressure
work? And if so, how?
WARE: Well, I wish it was that easy, Anderson. No one
wants to see the bloodshed here stop anymore than I
or the Iraqis that I live with. But it just simply
isn't that formulaic. You don't think there's
pressure on the Iraqis already?
The Iraqis -- this government is in a position to be
able to stonewall or deny America its interests and
Washington's own agenda and timeframe. Why? Because
many of these things are not interests that this
government serves.
And it has another backup, flush with cash, ready
with military support, all set to step in. And that
backup is Iran. Worst-case scenario: this government
does not need America.
So America can apply all the pressure it likes. The
only pressure that this government or any other would
adhere to is military kinds of pressure. Really
pressing an administration here.
And so far the most effective tool that the Americans
have used is these U.S.-sponsored Sunni militias,
putting the insurgents who were killing Americans in
government uniforms and using that program as a stick
with which to beat this government -- Anderson.
COOPER: Our conversation we will continue further on
later. David Gergen, Michael Ware, always good to
have you.
Michael, stay safe.