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Length: 5:45
KYRA PHILLIPS: "Stop the
violence." Iraq's most revered Shiite cleric urges
his followers not to retaliate against Sunnis. It's
the strongest call yet by the Grand Ayatollah Ali
al-Sistani to end weeks of sectarian bloodshed, more
of it today with four separate carbombings in and
around Baghdad. At least 11 Iraqis were killed, two
of them policemen. 38 bodies also have been recovered
in various parts of the capital, all showing signs of
torture. The US military acknowledges daily attacks
are up 40% in the city under curfew.
The rising violence means more Iraqis are becoming
refugees in their own country. The government reports
about 162,000 people have fled their homes; 32,000
just this month. That does not include those who have
slipped across the border or who have moved in with
relatives in safer areas.
US and Iraqi troops have launched an anti-al Qaeda
operation just outside the oil-rich city of Kirkuk.
It's a region known to be a safehaven for insurgents
and one that CNN's Michael Ware knows all too well.
He's been in Iraq for the past three years, one of
the few Western journalists to travel to insurgent
camps. Now you're here in Atlanta, we thought we'd
pick your brain. Good to see you, nice to have you
with us.
MICHAEL WARE: Thanks, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: And I know you're itching to go overseas,
hopefully that's going to happen soon.
WARE: We shall see.
PHILLIPS: You and I were talking just about Hezbollah
and al Qaeda, and I want to get to sort of an
interesting connection, but set up for our viewers
what kind of inside look you've been able to have
with factions of Hezbollah.
WARE: Well, Hezbollah is one of the most successful
Islamic militant groups in the world. They've been
able to achieve things that al Qaeda has not. Some of
the very things that al Qaeda is hoping to do,
Hezbollah has already done. For example, they already
have territory which is their own. They have become a
state within a state. That is one of the very clear
goals of al Qaeda, yet they have failed to do that.
PHILLIPS: And it's part of a legitimate government. I
mean, Hezbollah is within of a governmental system.
WARE: Absolutely. And they have that very active
political arm which is legitimizing itself. Plus,
Hezbollah is renowned for its ability to operate as a
state that's delivering services to its constituents,
to its people -- health care, education. Now, this is
something that the US military is greatly concerned
about in Iraq because we're seeing some very strong
Shia insurgent groups in Iraq copying the Hezbollah
model and in fact, according to US intelligence, it's
Iran that is facilitating this relationship between
Iraqi groups and Hezbollah.
PHILLIPS: So what you're saying is not only is Iran
supporting Hezbollah -- and we've talked about it
supporting Hamas as well -- but now you're saying it
could help legitimize al Qaeda in certain ways or
make al Qaeda more like Hezbollah?
WARE: Well, al Qaeda is a different kettle of fish.
Al Qaeda and Iran have a very prickly, very
complicated relationship. Al Qaeda and Iran in many
ways are diametrically opposed. One is from the Sunni
sect -- al Qaeda -- one is from the Shia. Ultimately
their goals are different. Yet Iran is very careful
in hedging its bets. It will support anyone who's in
the race. Iran's main goal, according to most of the
analysts, is to de-stabilize the region and
capitalize on the chaos and the anarchy.
Now, to Iran's mind, al Qaeda can help with that in
certain areas. So that's why we've seen even though
in some ways they're opposed to each other, Iran has
offered sanctuary to Zarqawi's group in the past, to
Ansar al-Islam, and currently holds a number of key
al Qaeda leaders under so-called house arrest.
PHILLIPS: So Iran isn't giving so much to al Qaeda
that al Qaeda could become as powerful as Hezbollah.
I mean, they're sort of keeping al Qaeda in its
place.
WARE: Yeah, it's certainly not -- and don't forget,
al Qaeda has its own sources of power.
PHILLIPS: But nothing like Hezbollah.
WARE: No, nothing like Hezbollah, certainly not at
this stage, but don't forget, al Qaeda taps into a
rich vein of Gulf oil money from Sunni states such as
Saudi Arabia and Yemen and other nations within the
Gulf region. So it has independent sources of
recruitment and money. In no way does al Qaeda rely
on Iran, whereas Hezbollah--
PHILLIPS: Does completely.
WARE: --is state-sponsored and it is propped up by
Iran.
PHILLIPS: So do you think al Qaeda could ever become
like Hezbollah, a legitimate part of a government and
be able to start providing governmental-type
assistance to people like you said, helping with
schools, helping with health care, etc?
WARE: That's certainly a part of its strategy and
that's what we started to see it doing in a very
early form in Afghanistan with the Taliban. I
remember many members of the top levels of the
Taliban government complaining to me how, when they
invited al Qaeda in, al Qaeda started taking over
even ministries within their government. So that's
something they want to do. And don't forget --
old-guard al Qaeda, the leadership that surrounds
Osama bin Laden, was very critical of Abu Musab
al-Zarqawi, the al Qaeda in Iraq leader, because he
was destabilizing their program to gain popular
support in Iraq and thereby create the toehold. They
want their own little mini-state from which they can
grow.
PHILLIPS: Michael Ware, looking forward to getting
your reports from overseas. We're glad you're with
us, glad you're a part of the CNN family. Thanks for
your time.
WARE: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: All right, a watchful eye from Iraq. We've
got more out of there right after the
break.