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Length: 2:07
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: The U.S. military is knocking down
reports that the new leader of al Qaeda in Iraq has
been killed.
CNN's Michael Ware is live for us in Baghdad this
morning.
Michael, good morning.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning,
Soledad.
You're right, the U.S. military says that it believes
that al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Ayyub al-Masri is
alive. There had been hope among the military that
they had killed him in a recent operation. Some
reports say this took place two days ago in the
western township of Haditha, but that's yet to be
confirmed.
What is confirmed is that an operation did take
place. A U.S. military spokesman says several
terrorists were killed. And while they originally
hoped that al-Masri was one of them, subsequent
identification of the bodies now makes it highly
unlikely that al-Masri is dead. And, in fact, this
military spokesman told CNN that the U.S. military
believes that al-Masri is still alive and has not
been killed in recent coalition forces operations --
Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: But, Michael, do they believe that in
fact they are getting closer and closer to him?
WARE: Well, the military spokesman did say that the
pursuit of al-Masri continues. We continue to get
close to him. I mean it's hard to gauge what's real
and what's not. We heard on the weekend the Iraqi
national security advisor on Sunday saying we are
very close to capturing or bringing this man in and
-- killing or bringing this man in in chains. We then
saw the U.S. military spokesman, Maj. Gen. William
Caldwell, express some skepticism about that.
I mean this is the great game. I mean, the military
here is chasing phantoms, so they are very difficult
to get a fix on. We saw this with Saddam time and
time again while he was on the run. His sons, Udai
and Qusai. And how many times the death of Abu Musab
al-Zarqawi, the former leader of al Qaeda in Iraq,
who was finally killed in June in a U.S. airstrike,
there was just countless reports of his capture or
death or near capture. This is just part of the
spooky game that is pursuing these al Qaeda leaders
here in Iraq -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Michael Ware in Baghdad for us.
Thanks, Michael -- Miles.
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MILES O'BRIEN: The leader
of al Qaeda in Iraq is apparently still alive despite
reports he was killed in a raid near Haditha. The
U.S. military says it does not believe that Abu Ayyub
al-Masri was killed, but DNA tests are under way to
make sure.
CNN's Michael Ware has the latest for us from Baghdad
-- Michael.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Miles, there
was speculation raised several hours ago that in fact
al-Masri had been killed during a recent U.S.
operation. But the U.S. military spokespeople are now
saying that no, that in fact is not the case. They
say that they believe that Abu Ayyub al-Masri has not
been killed in recent coalition forces operations.
There was a raid. They say that a number of
terrorists were killed. They'd originally hoped that
he was one of them, but after examining the bodies
and doing identification tests, they no longer
believe that, in fact, he was killed.
They're still awaiting the results of DNA reports,
according to other reporting. However, they are
saying that he is still alive as far as they believe
-- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Hard to say one way or another, Michael,
whether they're getting closer to finding him.
WARE: Miles, it's absolutely impossible. Even U.S.
military intelligence admits you really can't tell.
As you go down one path, you find that these phantoms
that they're chasing -- and that's very much what
this al Qaeda leadership is like -- has gone down
another path. I mean, we've seen this circle go round
and round, time and time again.
How many reports there were on Zarqawi, the previous
al Qaeda leader's death, before it actually happened
in June this year? This is just a part of the chasing
game that you see here in Iraq, as the U.S. forces
try to crack this almost impenetrable al Qaeda
network.
As an American commander in Ramadi said, "Al Qaeda
works very hard to keep us from understanding its
inner machinations." So that's the difficulty that
confronts the U.S. forces here -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, and as we found out, it's not as if
the death of Zarqawi, his predecessor in that role,
really had much of an impact in the violence.
WARE: Absolutely not. I mean, this is one thing that
has distinguished al Qaeda in Iraq, is its ability to
replenish, not just leadership, but even rank and
file, and entire cell networks. Indeed, what we have
learned from the Iraqi insurgents, former Ba'athists
and members of Saddam's military apparatus, is that,
indeed, despite the Americans' recent penetration of
the upper tiers, the killing and capturing of al
Qaeda leaders, al Qaeda has done two things. It's
become larger as it has soaked up local Iraqi
guerrilla groups, but also the new breed of leader
that has stepped up to replace those taken out by the
Americans is tougher, nastier, and harder than the
men they've replaced -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Michael Ware in Baghdad.
Thank you very much.
That's the word from Baghdad.
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MILES O'BRIEN: Dead or
alive. U.S. military officers say they do not believe
the new leader of al Qaeda in Iraq has been killed.
This contradicts earlier reports he died in a raid.
CNN's Michael Ware with more from Baghdad.
Michael.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Miles.
Just hours ago, very speculative reports emerged that
the al Qaeda in Iraq leader, Abu Ayyub al-Masri, had,
in fact, been killed by U.S. forces. However, it
didn't take long before the U.S. military came back
and said, no, that's not, in fact, the case. That
they feel that there's no substance behind those
reports.
What we know from a very messy and confusing picture,
very typical of the war here in Iraq, is that a raid
was launched by U.S. forces recently, perhaps just a
couple of days ago, targeting a location where it was
thought al-Masri may have been. During the engagement
there, several terrorists were killed. The U.S.
military spokesman says subsequent investigation of
the scene, identification of the bodies, now leads
the military to thinking it's highly unlikely
al-Masri is dead. In fact, a U.S. military spokesman
told us that, in fact, the U.S. military believes
al-Masri is still alive and did not die in recent
coalition forces operations.
Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Michael, give us a sense of the structure
of al Qaeda in Iraq. Is it a top-down organization
that is dependent on a single leader, or is it a
dispersed series of cells as the regular al Qaeda is?
WARE: Al Qaeda in Iraq here is a very tight-knit
organization, but extremely fluid. It's like a lizard
with a tail. You can pull the tail off and somehow
the tail grows back.
Everything is stovepiped or compartmentalized. So one
structure or one wing of the organization doesn't
necessarily know about the other. Even within
military terms, a company, or a group of soldiers,
groups within that company of soldiers don't even
know about the other groups or can't lead you to
them.
Yet there is command and control from the center.
Messages are passed down. Broad targeting frameworks
are passed down. Ideology. There's also coordination
with other Iraqi insurgent groups and other al Qaeda
elements in other parts of the country. So there is a
well- structured, sophisticated organization, but
it's very, very fluid. It's like, for the American
forces, trying to hold water in the palm of your
hand.
Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Michael Ware in Baghdad, thank
you.