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KITTY PILGRIM: Well,
Iran's ambassador to Iraq today said U.S. assertions
that Tehran is arming Shiite terrorists are -- quote
-- "irresponsible and unreal" -- unquote.
The ambassador described the Petraeus-Crocker
testimony to Congress as theatrical. And he made his
remarks in an exclusive interview with CNN's Michael
Ware in Baghdad.
Michael Ware joins us now live from Baghdad.
And, Michael, what exactly did the ambassador say
about Iran's links to the Shiite groups in Iraq?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty,
obviously, he denied those links.
He says, yes, we had connections with every group in
this country. But we're not supplying them weapons.
Indeed, he threw down the gauntlet to the United
States. He said, if we're supplying weapons to these
Shia militias, prove it. He said, we have received no
evidence from America through official channels, and
invited Washington to provide evidence through the
Swiss Embassy in Tehran.
He then turned the tables and said, well, as a matter
of fact, Iran has evidence of America arming and
supporting militias opposed to the government in Iran
itself, speaking of Kurdish and Baloch separatist
groups.
He said, we're ready to give that evidence to the
Swiss Embassy. Are you ready to give us your
evidence? He is saying there is none that exists. He
said, the occupation has to end. President Bush's
strategy to bring the terrorists in here and kill
them is working. He said it's turned into a terrorist
safe haven. And he said, don't touch the Maliki
government. Iran is under an obligation to protect
it, and we will.
He also said, American must abandon the policy of
bringing back the murderers of the Baath Party. He is
referring to the successful Anbar tribes program. And
he finished off by saying, we don't want conflict,
but we're not afraid of it -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Yes, that's a disturbing comment. What did
he say specifically about the Petraeus-Crocker
testimony on Capitol Hill, Michael?
WARE: Well, he said that that was, as you said,
theatrics. He said it was -- basically, it was
lacking substance and it was a matter of wild
accusations, in his view, despite whatever evidence
has been mounted.
And he says it was designed purely for a domestic
audience. He said it was serving particular
interests. And he found it easy just to bat the
allegations away, defying America to prove that he is
wrong. And, Kitty, what this really does, it gives
America a taste of what it's really in for here in
Iraq. General Petraeus flagged Iran. Iran really is
the name of the game now. They're certainly the long
game. You're always going to have an al Qaeda
problem, but shifting the Sunni Baathist, that has
helped that.
Iran still owns this country. And Iran is saying, we
have got everything in our favor. We don't owe you a
thing.
And they're not offering America any assistance
whatever. Indeed, they are promising that , we will
step in and arm and equip the Shia-dominated Iraqi
government, if you don't. Just get out of the region,
let us fix it, is what he says.
PILGRIM: Michael, there are reports that I wanted to
ask you about, that U.S. officials are stepping up
their efforts to form a pact with some of the Iraqi
Shiite militia groups, specifically Muqtada al-Sadr's
group, which holds a very dominant position in
Baghdad and has links to Iran.
Are you hearing these reports and what do you make of
these stories?
WARE: Well, that's been going on for well over a year
that I personally know of. And I actually have reason
to believe it's been going on, under various American
leadership here, from Ambassador Negroponte to
Ambassador Khalilzad, and now under Ambassador
Crocker.
The U.S. administration, whether it admitted it at
the time or not, has been reaching out. And, in fact,
the American Embassy has essentially set up a Muqtada
desk quite some time ago. Its sole objective is to
reach out to Muqtada, find out what it is that he
wants and see if America can outbid Iran and win him
over.
At the same time, it's looking for ways to put
pressure on him. But they have been dealing with
Muqtada's organization for a long time, like they had
been with the Sunni insurgents, when they said they
weren't, and a whole host of other people -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: you know, you bring up the reaching out to
the Sunnis in Anbar Province. It is a sort of
parallel effort, you could say.
But the short-term is for stability but long term,
does this not open the door for Iranian influence?
WARE: Oh, absolutely. It opens the door and, yet,
this is America's hedge against it.
Now, engaging the Sunni insurgents, what we're
talking about here are the men who commanded Saddam's
army and intelligence apparatus. Now, four years ago,
they offered America a deal after the invasion.
America rejected that. It took four years of war
before both sides could agree, and we're now seeing
the benefits of that.
These guys never liked al Qaeda. They offered to kill
al Qaeda in '03. America said no. Now they say yes.
And it's proving very effective. It serves American
interests in a number of arenas, not just al Qaeda.
It's also a stick with which to beat the Iraqi
government. They're terrified of this program. So,
it's trying to prod them into real action.
And these guys are rabidly anti-Iranian. They fought
them in the '80s when America was their ally. They
are willing to do it again. And America is using
these Baathist insurgents as a hedge against Iranian
influence. That's why the Iranian ambassador pointed
to it so strongly and said stop doing this or there
is going to be big trouble.
And he says, and if you continue to undermine the
Maliki government -- and he cited this as an example
-- there is going to be severe costs and it will
effect U.S. security, he said -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Michael Ware. Thanks,
Michael.