AC: "The solution is not
going to be in the trenches, you're going to have to
cut deals."
Wednesday, August 12, 2009
Length: 5:09
LARGE (59.6 MB)
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SMALL (6.3 MB)
Michael is back in New York and joins Anderson
Cooper on set to discuss the situation in
Afghanistan. With the election about a week away,
what may happen? And how will it affect the
American war effort there?
ANDERSON
COOPER: In Afghanistan today, fierce fighting erupted
in a southern Taliban stronghold as hundreds of U.S.
and Afghan soldiers moved in to protect voters.
Now, a week from tomorrow, Afghans go to the polls to
choose their president, only the second election
since the fall of the Taliban in 2001. But insurgents
have vowed to disrupt the vote and attacks are on the
rise.
Let's dig deeper now with Michael Ware and national
security analyst Peter Bergen.
So, Michael, July the deadliest month for U.S. and
for NATO troops.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, indeed, 70-odd
troop deaths.
COOPER: How tough is this going to be just to pull
off these elections?
WARE: Well, I think the elections will take place.
But, as President Obama's special envoy to Pakistan
and Afghanistan, Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, said,
you know, there's going to be problems. I mean,
you've got the security issue. You've got corruption.
You've already had election observers or election
workers killed. I think there's nine who have been
killed already.
There's going to be areas where essentially people
will not be able to vote. So, there may be a degree
of disenchantment or disenfranchising in some of the
Pashtun areas. Either way, it's not going to be a
pretty picture. But I think it will lurch its way to
some kind of, you know, successful outcome.
COOPER: Does the election really make much of a
difference one way or the other in terms of success
on the ground militarily?
WARE: In terms of the war, yes and no.
In a direct way, no, but, in a grander way, in terms
of the longer strategy, yes. It's about trying to
create a government that the Afghans can actually
turn to now, because that's so important in
counterinsurgency. It's instilling a government and
forces in place that will provide the security, both
in terms of delivering services and...
COOPER: And that's the knock on Karzai, is it's often
said he's just the mayor of Kabul, basically.
WARE: And he is. And let's not forget, Kabul has
always been essentially a foreign country within
Afghanistan. I mean, when I lived in Kandahar, I felt
like I should have shown my passport to get into
Kabul, because it's an entirely different place.
And you're right. Karzai lacks the ability to project
central power into the regions.
COOPER: By the way...
WARE: But, then again, it's so difficult to create a
central government, a real central government, in
that country.
COOPER: When you lived in Kandahar, could anyone
understand what the heck you were saying?
(LAUGHTER)
WARE: No, so it's no different to today.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: All right.
The -- the U.S. has said -- by the way, we're trying
to establish a connection with Peter Bergen. We're
having an audio problem, which is why...
WARE: I wondered why I was getting so much attention.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: We would be sharing the love here.
WARE: Yes.
COOPER: But I want to play something that Richard
Holbrooke, the -- as you mentioned, the State
Department's special representative for Afghanistan
and Pakistan, said. He made some interesting comments
today.
Here's a little bit of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD HOLBROOKE, SPECIAL U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR
AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN: I would say this about
defining success in Afghanistan and Pakistan. In the
simplest sense, the Supreme Court test for another
issue: we will know it when we see it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I think that other test was porn, wasn't it,
or art? I'm not sure. Art or porn, it's often said...
(LAUGHTER)
WARE: Yes. Yes, right. I think that's right, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Yes.
But, that aside, it does seem like the Obama
administration is trying to change the definition of
what success is, trying to kind of drastically scale
it down. You don't hear these talks about democracy,
about nation-building.
WARE: No.
COOPER: It's -- it's...
WARE: And so they should.
COOPER: It's preventing al Qaeda...
(CROSSTALK)
WARE: Right.
And the Bush administration already set us down the
track of reassessing the strategic goals. I mean, as
we saw in Iraq -- look, let's face it, you're not
going to have a glimmering model of democracy in
South Asia, in Kabul. It's never going to be
something perfect.
So -- and we've got to remember, too. Look, this
really isn't a humanitarian mission. America did not
go to Afghanistan for altruistic reasons. America is
there to protect, preserve and advance American
national security interests. So that's going to have
to be the goal of the campaign.
COOPER: And so how is the fight going? I mean, early
on we heard from U.S. commanders on the ground,
saying point blank, "Look, there's not enough Afghan
troops involved in this."
WARE: No, there's not. And they're now talking about
doubling the size of the Afghan army. And the Afghan
army, as I last saw it, was really just a hodge-podge
of different foot soldiers from different warlords.
And back then when I last saw them, you know, they
might have been wearing an Afghan national army
uniform, but their true allegiances lie to the bloke
back home.
So this is going to be difficult.
In terms of the fight, I mean, it's true. The
momentum right now is with the Taliban. And in a war
like this, if you're not winning, then you're almost
losing. America's not going to, like, lose the war in
Afghanistan on the ground, but you may not win it.
The true victory won't come with bombs and bullets.
It's going to have to come with a political solution
and the creation of some kind of a functioning
system, probably a decentralized system.
COOPER: Which even, by the way, U.S. military
commanders say. There's not a purely military
solution.
WARE: And they're dead right. Sorry about -- pardon
the pun, but they are. They're dead right. The
solution is not going to be in the trenches, you've
going to have to cut deals.
COOPER: A lot of folks working very hard right now
fighting in the trenches, though.
WARE: Yes.
COOPER: And they certainly should be applauded.
Michael Ware, appreciate it. Sorry for Peter Bergen.
Again, we tried to establish contact with him. That's
the -- what happens.