CB: "America can't be
bogged down. You could be there endlessly."
Monday, November 30, 2009
Length: 5:02
LARGE (58.6 MB)
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Campbell Brown talks with Michael and former
NATO commander General George Joulwan (Ret) about
what the extra troops will be able to accomplish in
Afghanistan.
CAMPBELL
BROWN: Tonight, President Obama's new strategy for
Afghanistan is already in the works. Marching orders
went out on Sunday during the president's Oval Office
meeting with his top military commanders. He spent
much of today informing U.S. allies abroad about the
broad strokes of his decision, which, of course,
comes down to more troops, basically, exactly what he
promised on the campaign trail last year. Listen to
this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We
definitely are going to need a couple of additional
brigades. We need more troops there. We need more
resources there.
Part of the reason I think it's so important for us
to end the war in Iraq is to be able to get more
troops into Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, on the eve of the president's big speech,
what is the endgame in Afghanistan?
Joining me now, CNN's Michael Ware and retired
General George Joulwan, former NATO supreme allied
forces commander.
Thanks so much to both of you for joining us.
General, let me start with you.
We know basically what the president is going to
announce, about 30,000 more U.S. troops to
Afghanistan. What's your take? Do you think the
number is enough to see some sort of difference on
the ground?
GENERAL GEORGE JOULWAN (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, I
think it's important, Campbell, to not only look at
the U.S. contribution, which is roughly about 30,000,
but I think you're going to see some NATO
contribution as well. And that's been missed in all
of this.
I think it's going to be between 5,000 and 7,000,
which gets you close to the 40,000 that McChrystal
reported. But you're also going to see, I think, a
wider strategic vision that the president is going to
lay out to try to get the people, American people, to
understand why we're sending more forces there.
BROWN: But expand on that a little bit and just talk
to me, though, about what those troops are basically
going to be tasked to do when they do go in.
JOULWAN: Well, it's going to be what is called a
counterinsurgency strategy, which is going to be
protecting population centers. But it's also going to
be in terms of training of the police and military.
We talked last time about a functioning police force,
a functioning military that can protect its borders.
You are going to see a lot of emphasis being placed
on that, because the Afghans are the key to this, not
American troops, but Afghanis. So, you're going to
see a lot of emphasis on training. And our European
allies can help quite a bit here.
BROWN: And, Michael, details about what exactly is in
the speech have sort of been leaking out over the
last 24 hours, a lot of emphasis, we understand, on
him conveying that this is not an open-ended
commitment.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.
BROWN: What does that mean, though? What do
conditions have to look like on the ground?
WARE: Well, America can't be bogged down. You could
be there endlessly.
But, the bottom line, as we have said time and time
again, militarily, you will not defeat the Taliban.
So, you're looking for a political solution. For a
political solution, you need partners within the
Afghan government, within the enemy, as we saw in
Iraq, when many of these Sunni insurgents returned
from al Qaeda to the American side.
But, most importantly, the American government needs
to look beyond the Afghan government. The government
of Hamid Karzai will not be able to deliver.
BROWN: Well, what's the situation then? Because you
say partners and basically they are relying on the
Karzai government. I mean, like it or not, it's what
you have got to work with.
WARE: It is. And it is what it is. It's a corrupt,
riddled regime of warlords and potentates. But that's
what any regime in Afghanistan is going to be. But
you need to look to the tribes. You need to look to
some of the old warlords who fought the Soviets.
You need people on the ground who can say, I can
control my district, because from Kabul, President
Karzai has a lot of trouble projecting power. So, you
need allies beyond the Afghan government.
BROWN: And, General, if you will, go back to the idea
of this exit strategy, the fact that we're debating
it and talking about it. We had a very similar
discussion surrounding Iraq, the idea that raising
the prospect of an exit plan weakens our position,
that the Taliban are just basically going to bide
their time and wait us out.
Do you agree with that?
JOULWAN: Well, I don't think the president's going to
get into sort of an exit strategy that sets any sort
of timetable. I think he's going to put some
benchmarks out that we will measure in a year or two,
but the onus has got to be on the Afghan government.
And I really think that it's not in Kabul, but it's
in the provinces that we have to make an effort here
if we're going to try to have some sort of success.
That's where I think the effort's going to be. And
you're going to see much more in the area of training
and in the area of police and military training than
just chasing the Taliban.
BROWN: Michael's point as well.
General Joulwan, Michael Ware, appreciate your time.
Thanks, gentlemen, so much.