CB: "Fight or
flight."
Tuesday, October 06, 2009
Length: 8:46
LARGE (102.3 MB)
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SMALL (10.7 MB)
Michael (in NY), James Carville (in NOLA), and
Gloria Borger (in DC) discuss what options
President Obama really has in regards to
Afghanistan.
CAMPBELL
BROWN: Tonight, after weeks, if not months, of bad
news and frustration for President Obama, he is
finally catching a break.
Take a look at this brand-new Associated Press-GfK
poll just out. It shows the president's approval
rating up to 56 percent. That is a six-point jump
from September and the first time his numbers have
gone up since taking office.
He still faces very strong opposition on Afghanistan.
Again, these are new numbers showing 57 percent of
Americans against the war right now. This afternoon,
the president sat down with more than 30
congressional leaders from both parties.
Republicans urged the president to listen to his
commanders, including the man in charge of the
conflict in Afghanistan now, General Stanley
McChrystal.
McChrystal, as many of you know, is openly pleading
now for more boots on the ground, while some
Democrats are pushing for a troop decrease.
So, our big question tonight, does President Obama
have any good options in Afghanistan?
Let's bring in CNN political contributor and
Democratic strategist James Carville, who we should
point out advised one of the candidates in the recent
Afghan presidential election. Also with us, CNN
senior political analyst Gloria Borger. And here with
me in New York, CNN's Michael Ware, who has
repeatedly been on the front lines covering
Afghanistan.
So, Michael, to that point...
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly.
BROWN: ... bottom-line this for us. You know, you
have been on the ground there -- 40,000 troops, is it
going to make a difference or not?
WARE: Depends how they're used. Basically, the
president right now faces an extraordinarily tough
choice.
It's foreign policy vs. domestic survival.
In terms of the war in Afghanistan, he's not fighting
it. He has a choice to make: fight or flight. All
right? Those 40,000 troops is what the military --
the top of the line of what the military is asking
for. Even they won't be enough.
But you still need them, plus additional forces from
the Afghans themselves, to start putting the hurt on
the Taliban, because you're not even touching their
war machine. America is making the Taliban war
machine stronger.
This president still has, what, three years left in
this electoral cycle. He can use two to do what's
unpopular, bite the bullet of public opinion, and
actually fight this war and try and salvage
something. A war that's no longer about al Qaeda and
is now as much about America's position in the world,
its status with Pakistan, which treats it like a
joke, India, and Iran.
BROWN: So you make it sound like, if McChrystal
doesn't get these troop, it's over.
WARE: Well, it's not over, but it's going to fall
apart very, very badly, and the egg is going to end
up on the president's face.
BROWN: Okay. That's a fairly stark assessment there.
James, it seems very much like he's caught, like
President Obama's caught between these generals, who
clearly want more boots on the ground, and the
leaders of his own party, who made it pretty clear
today they are ready to bring these troops home.
I mean, does it have to be an either/or? How does he
balance the two right now?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, well,
and we don't know -- the secretary of defense is not
a bit player in this. And if we look at the chain of
command, General McChrystal is probably somewhere
about fifth or sixth in that. And there is a chain of
command in this country in the United States
military. And we adhere to it.
The other thing is, is that the president gave, I
think, an additional 20,000 or so troops in
Afghanistan right after he took office. And the
result there is not very encouraging so far. It's the
longest war we have had in American history.
I think a review of what's going on here is in order.
And before we go and ask an additional 40,000 of our
young people to serve over there, we have to have
some confidence that what they're doing is going to
work. And I think the president is imminently
justified in taking time and looking at this and
discussing this, not only with just the military
people in Afghanistan, but with other -- with his
secretary of defense, with the secretary of the Army,
with the State Department and other people involved
in this. And we're going to have see where he comes.
In answer to your question, does he have any good
options in this? Not that I can see. And judging from
what Michael said, he doesn't seem to think there's a
lot of great options available also.
BROWN: I mean, Gloria, what's going on at the White
House right now? I mean, obviously, they're weighing
this. Are they coming to that same conclusion, I
guess?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I
think his national security adviser, General Jones,
is sort of heading up a team that's looking at all of
this.
And I think what you have got, Campbell, is you have
got divisions within the administration. What we
don't know -- and the person to watch here is the
defense secretary, Gates, because he's the one who's
dealing with his generals, I believe, trying to come
up with some kind of a plan that they can live with
and that the president can live with.
And we have to see if the president can do that. It
sounds, from what Michael is saying, that you can't
really split the difference here, that you have to
decide very cleanly whether you're going to continue
with a counterinsurgency strategy, or do what Joe
Biden wants you to do, which is adopt a
counterterror, more targeted strategy that deals with
Pakistan.
BROWN: James, you mentioned the chain of command, how
important that was, a moment ago. Does it surprise
you that General McChrystal has been so outspoken?
You have even seen the defense secretary publicly
urging him to tone it down a bit.
CARVILLE: Well, again, I think, look, from everything
that I know -- and I defer to Michael on this, whose
judgment I really trust -- I think General McChrystal
is a first-rate military man. People who have read
his report and said it's really -- it's really very
good.
Sometimes, people get very excited or very passionate
about something, but we need to step back. And there
is a chain of command here. And I think probably
General McChrystal understands this now better than
anybody.
And this is worthy of a very serious -- a very
serious look by the president and his advisers. And
there are a lot of very smart people, by the way, a
lot of very smart military people that say that it
should be some kind of thing to contain terrorism and
that a full-fledged thing would not be in the best
interests of the United States. That's a legitimate
question. And I'm sure it's something the president
has under advisement right now.
BROWN: So, Michael, how much time does he have to
make this decision? McChrystal has said it's a pretty
urgent situation right now.
WARE: It's 12 months. I mean, right now, you're
losing the war. You're not going to win it. But you
don't have to lose it. And that's what General
McChrystal is saying. Give me what I need to stem the
blood loss. And there's two tracks here. There's a
military track, and, of course, there's a political
track.
Now, militarily, even 45,000 troops isn't going to be
enough to do what has to be done. You need to couple
that with some inventive thinking. You need to
unleash some Afghan allies to add to your troops.
Right now, you really don't have any you can trust.
And that will do more than target al Qaeda and the
Taliban. It will send messages that America needs to
send around the region. And, politically, President
Obama has the time to do this. You can go to midterm
elections. You can have anti-war Democrats beating
him up if he does go on a war footing.
But come the presidential election, if he does it
right, if he actually fights this battle, he may
actually have something to produce to the American
people.
BROWN: Quickly, James, go ahead.
CARVILLE: Campbell, if I say something, the House --
he's got to get enough votes in the House to pass it.
BORGER: Well, he will. I think he will. There was a
blowup, as Ed Henry reported, today at that meeting
at the White House, with a liberal Democrat who's the
chairman of a very important committee,
Appropriations Committee, saying to the president,
we're not going to give you this money, or you're
going to spend $1 trillion over there.
But, in the end -- and I don't know if you agree with
me, James -- I think he will get it out of the House
if he wants it.
CARVILLE: Yes, I'm not sure because of a very
influential House Democrat whose name I can't say,
but initials are Nancy Pelosi, said that rounding up
the votes for the first Afghanistan vote was one of
the toughest things that they ever had to do.
BORGER: Right.
CARVILLE: And I suspect a second one is going to be
tougher than this. It's not a given. They're going to
have to work hard if the president decides that he
wants more troops. This is going to be a very, very
tough vote.
BORGER: Could be bipartisan, though, first bipartisan
piece of legislation they get.
BROWN: We will see.
CARVILLE: It will, but it's got to come to 217 -- or
it's got to come to 218.
BORGER: That's right.
WARE: If not, the word appeasement springs to mind.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: James Carville, Michael Ware here with me in
New York -- Michael, as always, thanks -- and, Gloria
Borger, thanks, guys.
BORGER: Sure.
BROWN: A little update we want to add here, too,
Sarah Palin urging the president on her Facebook page
tonight to increase troops in Afghanistan. Not sure
she's the one he will be listening to, but there you
go.